Hogfish Maximus - 44ish sailing sharpie?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by DennisRB, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Does your website have more details about Sea Eel? I didn't see anything about it other than it being listed in your catalog here:

    http://www.tantonyachts.com/catalogue.htm

    What does the "12" refer to in this series on your accommodation plan? [39' x 35' x 10' x 12' x 12,350 lbs]
    [edit: figured it out; it is 12 inches (draft), not 12 feet]

    Does Sea Eel have two companionway ladders in the main cabin? What for?

    Just aft of the stem, what is being represented by the diagonal red line, and by the diagonal oval?

    You've shown two off-centerboards, whereas Bolger's AS-39 only has one. Do you know that Bolger's single board was insufficient, or have you designed two just for symmetry's sake?

    I'd be interested in seeing a stability curve for Sea Eel, if you've calculated one.

    I assume this design is built in plywood. Could a similar style be designed for steel? Perhaps with heavy plate for the bottom (good both as ballast and for protection when hitting unyielding objects), and with appropriately deeper draft to counter the heaver topsides?
     
  2. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Speaking of Bolger AS-39s, two are available, one free:

    http://easternshore.craigslist.org/boa/4515601477.html

    http://www.popyachts.com/Boat/33740/For-Sale/Florida/Bolger/AS39-Sharpie.html
     
  3. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

  4. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Very cool design.

    Steve.
     
  5. dryboater
    Joined: Sep 2014
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    dryboater New Member

    Chris Morejohn Designs

    Hi - I am a newby to boat design as well as to this site. I am fascinated by Chris Morejohn's designs, but cannot find any drawings on his Blogspot site or Facebook page despite what I read in this chain. What am I doing wrong?
     
  6. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

    Chris provided some links where he posted drawings. If you read the whole thread you will find them. These are concept drawing, but give a good idea of what he is into.
     
  7. dryboater
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    dryboater New Member

    Thanks Frank, I got the links to work thanks also to Angelique's post
     
  8. chris morejohn
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    Location: St. Augustine Fla.

    chris morejohn Junior Member

    Hogfish Maximus and flat bottom boats

    Hi , I've been busy since last posting here so will try and help some. I will give some more food for thought on this whole debate of shallow flat bottom boats. First off I have had a very successful career in designing and building ultra lite fly fishing flats boats since the early 80's with thousands of these skiffs built to date. So I feel I know a thing or to about shallow light weight boats.
    My passion has always been very simple shoal draft sailboats.
    I never got involved in promoting these ideas and designs in sail as I feel it is a very limited market. The truth is that everyone that is interested in these boats are in the same shoes as I am. On a budget. I designed and built my sailboats to fit my personal needs.
    I needed shoal draft.
    I wanted a very simple hull to build that would fit all my needs inside it.
    These boats had to be functional first and looks last.
    They had to be affordable for my budget.
    I had to be able to build them alone and fast.
    I have sailed on And with Jim Melcher on His Alert many times. I have a series of photos that I will post on my blog site of Alert and Hogfish sailing in company in the Bahamas. The Alert and Jim got me to really start thinking of shoal draft.
    Bolgers ideas were a wake up call to me. Very inspiring.
    The Alert could never catch or out sail the Hogfish on any point of sail. Both boats being very similar in size and weight. The Hogfish being heavier.
    Jim built a black Skimmer in my shop in the keys during this time so I had lots of sailing in it. Saw the 2 x4 Chines.
    The difference between Alert and Hogfish in going to weather was the luff length.
    When he was reefed Alert had half the luff that Hogfish had.
    This is the problem that Bolgers designs will have when going to weather with limited luff and in a seaway with lighter displacement and short luffed multipal spars.To over come a light weight shallow hull design you will have to go to a ballasted drop keel to help in keeping the hull upright to go to weather well.
    Jim always complained about how light Alerts design was in construction, with the hull side panting in and out and the single skin of Dynel to protect the bottom from conchs and such he was always very careful where he grounded out.
    Again I state here for all novices , Jim was an outstanding seaman and sailor and helped to put Bolger on the map. People take boats places not the other way around.i suggest everyone that has limited sea time to cross a channel or bay on a really lousy day and night with your loved ones before committing to build a boat.
    I will say it again, the bow chine needs to be under water if you are going to live aboard. Anyone who says otherwise has no experience .
    The original Romp is for sale in St. Augustine Florida on shore behind the Target store there. This is a very simple boat and would be like Alert in its motion the centerboard being the only difference. I did not like a lot of what Alert felt like at sea so went on to design my own boat. She was a great boat at the time though.
    I have seen the Romp being built that was mentioned befor in Key Largo years ago.
    I belive in building and designing to last for generations. My light weight designs get used very hard for 300 plus days a year traveling up to a 100 plus miles a day and all are still going strong.
    I like a very solid strong boat under me so HFM is heavy but if you look at the list of what she is carrying not so much.
    I will be sailing to the West Indies this December for the winter and then off to Panama and the Pacific for some future adventures. I offer anyone of you all out there that really want to build a boat like this to come for a sail with me and my wife. I will show you that all this silly debate is nonsense. We will beat to weather in what will feel like a gale to most and sail in and out of every harbor without the motor.
    Email me at spankthemermaid@gmail.com to find out where to meet up.
     
  9. chris morejohn
    Joined: Apr 2011
    Posts: 32
    Likes: 10, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 48
    Location: St. Augustine Fla.

    chris morejohn Junior Member

    Hogfish Maximus and flat bottom boats

    Hi , I've been busy since last posting here so will try and help some. I will give some more food for thought on this whole debate of shallow flat bottom boats. First off I have had a very successful career in designing and building ultra lite fly fishing flats boats since the early 80's with thousands of these skiffs built to date. So I feel I know a thing or to about shallow light weight boats.
    My passion has always been very simple shoal draft sailboats.
    I never got involved in promoting these ideas and designs in sail as I feel it is a very limited market. The truth is that everyone that is interested in these boats are in the same shoes as I am. On a budget. I designed and built my sailboats to fit my personal needs.
    I needed shoal draft.
    I wanted a very simple hull to build that would fit all my needs inside it.
    These boats had to be functional first and looks last.
    They had to be affordable for my budget.
    I had to be able to build them alone and fast.
    I have sailed on And with Jim Melcher on His Alert many times. I have a series of photos that I will post on my blog site of Alert and Hogfish sailing in company in the Bahamas. The Alert and Jim got me to really start thinking of shoal draft.
    Bolgers ideas were a wake up call to me. Very inspiring.
    The Alert could never catch or out sail the Hogfish on any point of sail. Both boats being very similar in size and weight. The Hogfish being heavier.
    Jim built a black Skimmer in my shop in the keys during this time so I had lots of sailing in it. Saw the 2 x4 Chines.
    The difference between Alert and Hogfish in going to weather was the luff length.
    When he was reefed Alert had half the luff that Hogfish had.
    This is the problem that Bolgers designs will have when going to weather with limited luff and in a seaway with lighter displacement and short luffed multipal spars.To over come a light weight shallow hull design you will have to go to a ballasted drop keel to help in keeping the hull upright to go to weather well.
    Jim always complained about how light Alerts design was in construction, with the hull side panting in and out and the single skin of Dynel to protect the bottom from conchs and such he was always very careful where he grounded out.
    Again I state here for all novices , Jim was an outstanding seaman and sailor and helped to put Bolger on the map. People take boats places not the other way around.i suggest everyone that has limited sea time to cross a channel or bay on a really lousy day and night with your loved ones before committing to build a boat.
    I will say it again, the bow chine needs to be under water if you are going to live aboard. Anyone who says otherwise has no experience .
    The original Romp is for sale in St. Augustine Florida on shore behind the Target store there. This is a very simple boat and would be like Alert in its motion the centerboard being the only difference. I did not like a lot of what Alert felt like at sea so went on to design my own boat. She was a great boat at the time though.
    I have seen the Romp being built that was mentioned befor in Key Largo years ago.
    I belive in building and designing to last for generations. My light weight designs get used very hard for 300 plus days a year traveling up to a 100 plus miles a day and all are still going strong.
    I like a very solid strong boat under me so HFM is heavy but if you look at the list of what she is carrying not so much.
    I will be sailing to the West Indies this December for the winter and then off to Panama and the Pacific for some future adventures. I offer anyone of you all out there that really want to build a boat like this to come for a sail with me and my wife. I will show you that all this silly debate is nonsense. We will beat to weather in what will feel like a gale to most and sail in and out of every harbor without the motor.
    Email me at spankthemermaid@gmail.com to find out where to meet up.
     
  10. chris morejohn
    Joined: Apr 2011
    Posts: 32
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    Location: St. Augustine Fla.

    chris morejohn Junior Member

    Sorry i'am not good at this stuff .i am trying to post a bunch of pictures .
     
  11. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

  12. chris morejohn
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    Location: St. Augustine Fla.

    chris morejohn Junior Member

    Hogfish Maximus sailing Pictures

    Angelique and others, sorry i'am not very well versed in dealing with down loading pictures on this site. My kids are not here to help me. Ha
    I will post some pictures on my blog site which is easy for me to do.
    One photo will show the size difference of HFM and Matt Laydens Paradox sailboat Zoey built by Glen Maxwell.
    Also some thoughts on the questions about box boat stability . My personal boats carry a lot of supplies ,food ,tools , anchors, roads and stuff to go long distances and earn a living as I go. Hence the weight.
    The thing a lot of you guys that are getting stuck on is the old photos of all these great old sharpie sailboats .
    These boats were designed for fishing and some for carrying freight. The fishing boats had low freeboard to make it easier to work. They had no refrigeration so fished close to shore and were not offshore for long periods. They look great but make lousy offshore sea boats when made into yachts. For Ruel Parker to build a replica of a halibut schooner with a hugely weighted drop keel is missing the whole point. That's not a sharpie now. That's a drop keel boat that has to be watched very carefully when getting into shallow waters so as to not break the board cable. The low sheer makes it an unsafe offshore boat so why have the complicated keel?
    To talk and speculate about broaching in big seas means you all have not been to sea. Most all boats if going too fast will want to try and round up and broach in growing sea conditions. What to do? Slow down. Balance your sailplan.
    Remember we are all simple budget , on the cheap sailors here so think this out with Common sense.
    If you are planning on cruising in a shoal draft sailboat rigged as a soft lug rigged schooner you will need a good engine to get under way. The gentleman that said he would just motor sail to weather will need lots of fuel and a very big engine and prop. To think that way you will be missing the whole point of why we are here discussing simple affordable sailboats.
    To get underway in a soft sail lug rigged schooner you will if husband and wife need to figure out who is to steer when getting underway under sail. The worlds anchorages are full of expensive yachts that have to be avoided . Hoisting anchor and getting steerageway under sail in one of these Riggs will be a challenge without a motor. You will have to be able to get under way in gale conditions at some time or other if you leave the dock.
    I have opted for the basic Marconi rig because used masts are cheap, sails do not have to be custom made and rollerfurling on the jib makes single handing very easy. I grew up sailing the Pacific in a gaff rigged Sea Witch ketch with no winches so I am familiar with old school.
    It's been a long time since Bolger drew his box boat designs . They worked for what he had in mind at the time. Materials cost way more today and if you are going to buy 70 sheets of plywood you what to create something more than a box boat that is suited to bay conditions. I think that if he had sailed with Jim Melcher on Alert offshore and put some sea miles under his belt he would rethink some of it today.
    I will post these pictures on my blog page Chris Morejohn blog spot
    Please someone post some pictures of all these other shoal draft boats under sail in real wind and not flat calm.
    A Norwark island sharpie if saiied well can cross any ocean if the crew can handle it. Rodger Martins super expensive Presto ketches sail like a dream.
    All the others will work for the right crew, just get out there and start sailing and then after some sea time start building.
     

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  13. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

  14. chris morejohn
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    Location: St. Augustine Fla.

    chris morejohn Junior Member

    Photos

    Thanks imaginary number !
     

  15. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    frank smith Senior Member

    Here is a nice big sharpie, I think it may be a Colvin design, about 80' 5153505a9d370.image.jpg

    noteasybeinggreen.jpg

    th.jpeg
     
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