History: Making a hull from wood models

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by newcat, Jun 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. newcat

    newcat Previous Member


    Thanks for the info. and questions. No, i'm not going to build like the old timers did. I use Wharram as an example of a open deck Cat. I will build the boat using Foam/PrePreg S glass, bagged. Also, Wharrams tiki type beams and lashings.

    The idea is a very fast cat, with a flush deck, low profile, wide open for a big deck tent, enough room down below for a head, Taylor's stove, and sleeping for 4. 4 singles

    So its blend of race cat with an old world, minimalist approach. Think long term ultra light camping, on a sail boat. The two entry ways will be watertight, also bulkheads. (Think Contessa entryway, with a water tight door) I like the new cat idea Hughes has, bridge-deck cat. I want something like that, with beams and lashings. I don't have the $$ to pay 20k for a design, i have the money to build a 30-40 ft boat with my labor. Im not going to try to debate sail rigs with anyone i don't have enough experience. There are Junk rig cats sailing all over the globe, and they deal with the issues. I'm not 100% set on any rig right now.

    If anyone wants to design two ultra performance type hulls, that can use a box beam/lash system and offer up cutting files for the molds, female, i will make the molds, use them, then loan them to another for a 2nd boat.

    Its simple, two hulls
    Beams
    Unstayed carbon mast x2
    High tech junk sails And ???
    Flush Decks
    Water proof hatches (think a deck system like Fountain uses on their fishing boats to help keep water out/off of the hatches)
    Water proof bulkheads
    One head, Air compost system
    4 alpine stoves, that use Kero... MSR Whisper jets, field repairable?
    Stow away Geo dome tent for anytime on anchor Jacks Paco pads for sleeping on deck/sitting the best... Google them!
    Kero lights
    Some LED lights
    4 single berths
    Beta Marine 14 hp
    SS fuel tank... Size???
    Water storage
    I have designed a floating Solar system for charging on good days. It folds up and stows below. Why limit the size to your boat room, blow it up, float it out, fast charge.

    This boat is built to be light, fast. Carry 4 people, all with a ultra light back country mentality. It will be designed to have very few fail points, thing's that break....
    If your not cutout to travel this way, no problem, i am and will.

    Looks like someone was years ahead of me in this way of thinking! So move the rig out to the hulls (Junk) add a little more deck space forward of the were the mast used to be, update the hull shapes to modern performance thinking, and there we go! See photo
     

    Attached Files:

  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,866
    Likes: 299, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member


    oh - my mistake. i thought "I want Gunboat like performance hulls" meant you would like some windward performance as well.

    Silly me.
     
  3. newcat

    newcat Previous Member


    No problem, i could care less about windward. If i have to go, i know its slow.
    :D With a no rush, open sailing route, i can avoid it most of the time.
    If i had to get from A to B in a set time, i would worry about it more. Plenty to see, plenty of time to do it.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,097
    Likes: 163, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Well then let me take a try at what you asked.

    Old timers put in lots of time sailing on boats of the day. They studied the flow of water around the boat and the handling on various points of sail. They decided what they wanted different from that experience.
    Then they made a wooden small scale model showing the shape they imagined.
    After a lot of study they might carve another one. Then they built the boat. If they were highpowered enough or had deep enough pockets they might make a small scale boat to test. Either way they built a boat. Once they sailed that they tried to compare against the boats they started sailing with, possibly in one on one competition. Then they tried to imagine a better shape from the experience they had with their first boat. Repeat until you are satisfied.
    Later a few would make a model of the old and a model of the new and try to compare by towing the models at the same time.
    More recently the designers tried to come up with rules/ laws or numerical descriptions. This is the new fangled way.

    Now I understand you don't like what people try to suggest or tell you. But there is no magic method. I tried to make the same suggestion I just outlined above, and it was obvious you weren't interested.

    One last comment - anyone who says they are not concerned about windward performance is a danger to themself.

    Good luck, your nasty attitude will not get better information, it will shut off the help - assuming you think it is help.

    My suggestion - buy plans for a Wharram in the size you want. Make a model of the changes you want and go sail it. At least you will be starting with all the experience of one of the noteable modern designers and can "improve" on that.

    For what its worth - I don't really care about your ideas either. Several posters have pointed out inconsistent statements that you will have to resolve if you want something useful.

    And if you want downwind only check out Kon-tiki or one of the old windjammers. A square sail is one of the most efficient downwind sails ever conceived. But I am sure you can improve on them.

     
  5. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 2,208
    Likes: 165, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1244
    Location: Back full time in the UK

    Richard Woods Woods Designs

  6. newcat

    newcat Previous Member

    I have no freaking idea why you would post all that hate?

    "For what its worth - I don't really care about your ideas either"

    Same.... now move on troll.....
     
  7. newcat

    newcat Previous Member

    Right here:
    http://uydjanelleftw.wordpress.com/...s-catamarans-pdf-wooden-boat-plans-australia/


    PS: If i found you a scammer, stealing your plans for re-sell, i expect a reward! [: HAHA




    Take this design, remove the top, use carbon beams with lashings, flush deck, that is my goal. I bet someone could design it at 38 feet????? Magic carpet ride around the world. Only accommodations would be in hull while sailing. Full open deck when not (Tent) If i built a design like that, i would use the modern rig.
     

    Attached Files:

    • 3611.jpg
      3611.jpg
      File size:
      49.5 KB
      Views:
      288
  8. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,097
    Likes: 163, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Newcat,

    I'll post anywhere I like.

    Apparently you can't even read.

    Hate? No I'm just responding to your posts, as you asked.

    What is your response to my take on how the old timers used wood models? If you actually want a conversation.
     
  9. newcat

    newcat Previous Member

    I could pay someone with a 3d scanner to scan any hull shape i want, and reverse engineer it. I don't go things like that. If i were to take a hull shape as a reference, it would not be a McGreggor.
     
  10. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 2,208
    Likes: 165, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1244
    Location: Back full time in the UK

    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    So, since you posted a photo of a Strider why not buy a set of Strider plans, make a model of it and then scale it up? At least you'd have a starting point. Of course even then all you have then is a hullshape. You have still to decide how to build it, the strength of the beams and reinforcing etc. Rudder and board sizes.

    And it all has to float level so you need to know not just the CofG but also the CofB. And at that stage all you'll have is a boat that floats level, not necessarily one with good performance or one that is comfortable to live on board or is seakindly to sail.

    Richard Woods
     
  11. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 14,998
    Likes: 825, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    How do you intend to design and build carbon fiber tubes?
     
  12. newcat

    newcat Previous Member

    Huh? What do i need a carbon fiber tube for? The beams in my design will be box beams.....and the mast won't be a true tube...Go watch youtube for many how too's on making a carbon mast......The junk rig requires a much easier type of mast to make, one of the reasons i'm going with them. Low, Strong, Stiff....No worry about flex etc etc....Just short and stiff. Easy to make DIY

    Not going to use a strider plan, i'm going to do something very modern. Still studying types of high performance Cats. My favorite so far is this boat, but obviously not a long range cruiser.

    http://www.thegreatcup.com/
     

    Attached Files:

  13. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 3,113
    Likes: 279, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1279
    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Newcat, you will do well to come to grips with the old adage: " A little knowledge is dangerous"

    I wish you success, safety, and happiness in your quest.


    One more thing.............Upchurchmr is not a troll. He is sometimes a hard *** but he is a pretty smart one.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 14,998
    Likes: 825, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    "No worry about flex"??? Do you have any idea how a beam with a free end works?
     

  15. newcat

    newcat Previous Member

    What's that have to do with hull shape?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.