Historical multihulls

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Gary Baigent, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Agreed, remember the problems Swan had with their infused dark hulled boats. I was told that if you left a metal tool on the deck of one famous large black trimaran it would soften the foam and leave an imprint.

    I recall the A class used 34-35ft masts back in the early 1980's, but found they were too tall, as of course did the F40's when they tried 80ft masts in the late 1980's

    I was also told by a carbon spar maker that he would never personally have a "black" carbon mast, he would always paint it white. UV will degrade the epoxy, even through varnish, and black causes the same hot/cool problems as on a hull

    Richard Woods (also now in Mexico)
     
  2. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    It's pure fashion and consumerism. The very high masts begun when some guy won one or two races on the Italian lakes with winds ranging from 0.01 knots to 0.1 knot with a new tridimensional sail cut in a miracle plastic on a 34 feet mast. Two months later every body in A class was struggling with too high masts and sails slim as a Spanish navaja.
    The funniest is that one of my colleagues et the Navy was winning every local class A regatta in North Brittanny with a very ordinary BIM, a 27 feet mast and a 2 years old terylene sail, beating some of the French upper cream in the class. So, he is invited at the Mecca of sailing of France in South Britanny against the upper-upper cream of the rich boys with 20 thousand bucks class A.

    He is a bit anxious so he calls me; I brief him on all the details of wind and sea at La Trinité, and prepared his cata; 2 turbulators on the mast, a bit more tension on the diamond stays, a new terylene sail, a good sanding of the daggerboards with 800 paper, idem for the govern blades plus 0.35mm turbulators, general cleaning and maintenance and wished him good luck.

    He won 4 times on four regattas, because he was the fittest, and an excellent skipper with a decent boat, making always the good choice...After he had to come back to Brest and stayed 2 years on the "Jeanne d'Arc" doing a world circumnavigation, at the great relief of the rich boys in Class A...

    Have a nice trip in Mexico!
     
  3. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Oh dear, us Kiwi jokers have been so wrong for all these years, I mean, black boats ... you know there are quite a few All Blacks here.
    Actually, the hulls may be black but usually the decks are off white or a light colour.
    Seriously a 34 foot mast on an 18 by 7.5 foot A Class with their narrow beam; that is asking for trouble. But so what, suck and see, live and learn. Now we know the limits.
     
  4. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Having burnt myself on a black anodised alloy boom in the UK on a hot day, I don't like black finishes in hot sunlight. Hell that was not even near the Equator!.

    I'm interested in your comment Richard as that is exactly how I'd finish a carbon/epoxy mast. Some makers do and some don't, I've seen black painted too. The latter does protect from UV but still gets too hot for my liking. As far as I can work out, protecting epoxy from UV seems to work best for longevity too. So maybe it might be a fashion thing with bare or varnished carbon sported on vessels whose life is short ie a year or two, and it just trickles down.

    Well Gary, even over here in the UK, I know of a few black hull, white deck boats - owned by Kiwis!. Some even have a little white fern on 'em....;)
     
  5. Tom.151
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    Tom.151 Senior Member

    FWIW - I learned about UV damage to epoxy-glass sheathing over plywood the hard way. I'll try to attach a picture of the evidence.

    During the search for a solution I learned that conventional boat/marine topside paints provide insufficient protection (at least in tropical climes, I was in Florida USA at the time) - unless the paint is a "high solids, black paint" AS an aside there's on luxury boat builder that undercoat/primes their boats with high solids black paint - can't remember the name at the moment (senior moment that is).

    Okay, the attachment seems to have worked... the pict is of the horizontal cockpit coaming, which was Okume 1088 ply with epoxy coating and 6 oz glass over, then painted and then non-skin paint over that in places.

    When I discovered the glass was lifting in places, I exposed the surrounding area.
    Some places the glass was completely separated from the ply underneath (as in zero peel strength), other areas were the glass covering was fully bonded and nearly impossible to remove, and others in between.

    At last, I noticed the discoloration of the underlying plywood. I added notes to the picture. because the discoloration was so clearly demarked by straight edges it was possible to see that the coloration and the peel strength were directly related to the different areas providing differing degrees of UV protection. The most protection was underneath the genoa track (obvious huh) and the glass covering there was nearly as if it was new covering - had to sand the glass of in places under the track.

    For me at least - if you are in tropical conditions, you need to at least understand that this is really a potential and likely severe problem for longevity.

    Cheers,
    TomH
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    We are predating a thread about historical multis...Thanks Tom for your very interesting post: a direct long term experimentation about UV effects. I have remarked also that pearl paints give better protection as they are charged with mica which reflects the light, and the protection by the paint is far better when a grey or black primary is used. The so called anti UV varnishes are a joke, varnishes are for inside, out of the sun.
     
  7. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Perhaps we need a mica filled varnish - on a historical multihull so we stay with the thread. :)
     
  8. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    The Formula40 trimaran Biscuits Cantreau 4 suffered a complete main hull failure in Auckland soon after being refitted and put on the water. She is being rebuilt now and there is a facebook page that has been setup to follow the progress:

    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005705925511
     
  9. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    Looks like it sheared at the point of attachment of the main forward aka.

    Seems odd that there would be only a single ring frame at that point, and that not continuing across the keel section of the hull.

    Is this just super light weight design, or I am being a typical DIY "over-builder".?
     
  10. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    If it breaks it isn't overbuilt.....
     
  11. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Apparently It had some poorly repaired damage from a hard grounding which caused the hull failure. It's nice to see this boat having a renaissance anyway.
     

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  12. rapscallion
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    That is one beautiful trimaran! What are the specs? weight, sail area ect...
     
  13. hump101
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    hump101 Senior Member

  14. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Just a question on D class catamarans. It seems like an interesting box rule but was there ever a D class championship or was it just a few orphan boats that were built?
     

  15. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Funny you should ask that today

    Check here

    https://www.jibeset.net/show.php?RR=JACKY_T001455332&DOC=r101&TYP=html

    and you'll see two D class cats raced in the 3 Bridge Fiasco at the weekend. More on Latitude 38

    But I don't think many were built. Phil Weld had one, so too did the Dashews. Before their time I guess. However I do remember several C class cats fleet racing in Cowes Week in the early 1960's

    RW
     
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