Hiking wings for hydrofoiling boat

Discussion in 'Stability' started by dumothmoth, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. dumothmoth
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    dumothmoth New Member

    Dear all, I am part of a design group who are trying to design a hydrofoiling single hander (similar to a moth but for slightly less experienced or heavier sailors). We are looking into hiking wings but are not really sure how to go about designing them! Does anyone have any suggestions as to the angles (of the wings as they meet the hull), materials, shapes, cost etc.? Also are there any potential disadvantages that we should be aware of here?
    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
    Thanks so much.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Why not copy the Moth and or the RS600FF as far as wing dihedral and building goes. But maybe consider using relatively low buoyancy floats(perhaps removable) to enhance stability off the foils?

    RS600FF: (picture by Paul Wyeth)

    [​IMG]


    Fire Arrow Test Model:

    [​IMG]
     

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  3. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Ummm, with respect this is not the place to get the sort of high-quality detailed information about wings for foilers you're looking for. Wings tend to be fairly tricky things in several ways.I think there's only one regular poster here who has sailed a foiling Moth, and that was only once. No regular poster here has the sort of experience you're looking for.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foiler Racks

    -------------------
    That's not true-at least one regular poster owns and sails a Mach II foiler Moth. And I personally designed and built my own 16' foiler with carbon racks. There are many people on this forum extremely skilled in designing and building in carbon and other materials.
    There is a lot that can be learned on this forum and I wish you good luck.
     
  5. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    I did say "I think", Doug.

    The fact is that SA has many more people with major experience in foiling dinghies and building racks than BDF. There are people there with very significant experience in building and using racks on high performance boats.
     
  6. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Part of the issue is that when designing wings for just sailing you really want to make them structural elements of the boat. Designed to carry racking loads they can provide a lot of stiffness to the boat. The downside of this is that the wings then become permanent parts of the boat which may make the boat to wide to easily trailer. So a compromise has to be made, do you restrict the width to stay within legal trailering width, reduce the structural advantages of the wings, or find a way to use the wings structurally and removable.

    As for angle... Depends on the rest of the design. What's the expected heel angle and flying height of the boat? Moths sail with windward heel and fly pretty high, A-Cats fly flat and low, different boat attitude requires a different wing design.

    Are there going to be traps and wings, or just wings?
     
  7. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    In case others come looking, the SA thread is here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=169886.

    If you want to build something that's like a Moth, get a Moth, learn to sail it, then work out what it is you want to build instead. Hiking racks are not a huge design challenge, foils and rigs will test you much more. :)
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Racks /Foils

    =========
    And there is more in this thread ,particularly from Greg, than there is in the entire thread on that other forum! Nothing there-ZERO.
    =================
    If you want more detailed help you'll have to come up with a more specific list of requirements(SOR-Statement of Requirements) for your proposed boat.
    A simpler, possibly easier to sail, version of the Moth is already under development-the Waszp. The R Class in New Zealand has pioneered two person monofoilers.
    Probably one of the easiest foilers to sail is one of the newest-the Quant 23 foiling scow keelboat. A smaller version of that would be tremendous.
    A small trimaran foiler could be easy to foil and easy to handle on a beach. A small catamaran foiler(14')-the S9- with wand controlled foils is in production. All depends on exactly what you're trying to achieve.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/waszp-peoples-foiler-i-hope-52388.html

    http://www.rclass.org/

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/quant-23-foiler-scow-53468.html

    http://www.s9team.it/home.html
     
  9. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Actually, Doug, the SA thread contained information from two Moth builders, including one directing the OP to the Moth home builder facebook page, which contains. In contrast, not a single Moth builder has posted here.

    Information from someone like Teknoligica (a professional builder of high tech racing boats and a long-term Mothie) and Phil S (an amateur builder with decades of experience) is pretty valuable, even if it's not what you or the OP wanted to hear.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foiler design

    Some information! No links-just a Moth-centric view of all things. Common sense would suggest studying all existing production foilers-not just the Moth, not just monofoilers.
    But to narrow it down requires more info from dmm.
     
  11. JRD
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    JRD Senior Member

    A search through the threads on SA will reveal a tonne of moth design info. Both people quoted by CT would chip in and help someone genuine that is willing to share what they have done so far.
    The OP said he wants something like a moth so a moth centric response is what you would expect.
    If the OP is genuine I hope he continues and is willing to share his concept and is open minded enough to accept the guidance he receives. It sounds like a school project so far, and if he said it were, I'm sure he would receive a fair go from members on either forum.
     

  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Need more info from the OP because he specified the new boat would be "like a Moth" for heavier and less experienced people. Moth design info won't do a lot of good unless the group is going to copy the Waszp. So if not a Waszp, what kind of foiler?
    For ease of sailing and carrying heavier crew it might pay to look at other foilers both mono and multi.
     
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