High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF daughter of fire arrow-Sliding Seats: There is an ultra light weight single person sliding seat on each side of the boat enabling the crew to slide outboard almost 2' in just a few seconds while providing maximum comfort and back support.
    WOLF 14 concept-w-wolfman 9-5-18 007.JPG
    ============================

    FLASH: Gitana 17, using a basic foil system virtually identical to that developed between 2010 and 2014 for the Fire Arrow Test Model(years ahead of any other trimaran using a similar system) and that will be used on the fullsize WOLF, won her first confrontation with Macif and Banque Pop in a close 24 hour race(after a poor start)!!
    See more here:
    Gitana 17 vs Macif vs Banque Pop! https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/gitana-17-vs-macif-vs-banque-pop.61117/

    Remarkably, all three 100 footers use their own versions of the Fire Arrow Foil System but Gitana was the first to do so and her UptiP ama foils are similar to the ama foils on Fire Arrow but with more "droop" to the tip. The system is a revolutionary full flying hydrofoil system that is a major breakthru in trimaran design.

    Gitana 17 UptiP ama foil:
    GitanaTriSep2018.jpg

    Fire Arrow UptiP ama foil:
    MPX ama + ama = cat --foil comparison 011.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow 45 degree (almost)pitchpole-- 100% self-righting recovery--The original youtube video is gone of the 2nd day of testing but an overlooked element of that day when nearly everything went wrong on June 26, 2014 was the boats recovery from a 45 degree (almost)pitchpole . A screen shot of the pitchpole wanabe is below-it was an accident that was 100% my fault and occurred when I tried to gybe when the boat was overpowered and not on foils. The cool thing is that she righted herself and continued with testing!
    First mention of this is on page 93, post 1393, 6/26/14
    Fire Arrow Specs at the time of this test: p88, post 1307

    MPX-Fire Arrow-pitchpole wanabe.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  4. Doug Halsey
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    Doug Halsey Senior Member

    How would you recommend handling this situation? If you're not foiling & are overpowered, tacking instead might not be an option. What can you do?
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Hi, Doug-I had tacked several times that day so that could have worked. The real problem was the technique: I put the rudder hard over "thinking" I could yank the main across. But the winch wouldn't do it and by the time I realized that it was already going over. I had an RMG 380 winch- a few years old(like 20!) and it just didn't have the power. SA for this test= 3390 sq.in..(159sq.in. per lb//F3 222sq.in. per lb.)
    If you couldn't tack but could head up, you might be able to luff the boat and back down?
    At the time I didn't realize the significance of what happened. Yesterday, I measured the angle and it was right on 45 degrees. I also went to the saved pictures from that day and found a copy of the "hopping" video of the whole episode which I'll put up in a few minutes. I shortened it considerably from the first video. Unfortunately, this is the video where I had tremendous other problems including wands that were too long, jib letting go, etc. So, certain individuals that saw the video, even after the successful test one month later, always referred to the boat as "hopping " around. I had assumed that people would realize the fact that it was a test video that was superseded by the video on 7/24/14 when the foil system worked perfectly. But these certain individuals continued to use the video to unfairly criticize the boat so I took it down.
    When you see the short version below please let me know what you think of how the boat(and I) handled the pitchpole(wanabe) and recovery. And any suggestions you might have for handling that kind of situation.
    Pitchpole(wanabe) recovery video(very shaky most of the time) -second day of testing:

     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow Foiler / Foil System Testing and Development-Two Stage Ama-original description:

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =====================================================================
    And since 7/24/14 four large trimarans have adopted similar foil systems to the Fire Arrow Foil System: Maserati, Gitana 17,Banque Populaire and Macif!
    And the microSAIL! video that is not working in Freds article:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow/WOLF projects moving: I'm moving to Melbourne / Viera into a house instead of a condo. Instead of the gorgeous view of the Banana River and sunsets every night for the last 12 years, I'll have a nice 17' wide canal. However, my condo on the beach had (noisy!)neighbors overhead and on one side and the garage was open to all the other garages(no boat building). The new place has neighbors about 60' to each side which is great and has a fantastic enclosed boat shop, I mean garage. And best of all nobody walking on the ceiling like the condo had!
    UPDATE--move date Nov. 3rd

    But I'll miss this so very,very much:

    006.JPG

    004.JPG

    Sunset at River Place  8-16-14 003.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Banque Pop best picture yet from Pressure Drop- She is one of four trimarans now using a basic foil system nearly identical to the one pioneered by the Fire Arrow Test Model. BP is about to enter the Route du Rhum in competition with Gitana 17 and Macif-all using nearly identical, revolutionary foil systems:
    follow the race here starting Nov.4th- Route du Rhum https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/route-du-rhum.60273/page-2

    Banque Populaire-pressure drop.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  11. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  12. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati Wins Against the Odds!! After many problems and heartaches the Team pulled it together to win the Middle Sea Race in Malta against a nearly identical Mod 70 by close to 50 miles. She won despite continuing problems with the stb rudder and ,this time, with the mainsheet. Much more to this story.
    After the successful Fire Arrow testing of July 24, 2014 Maserati was the FIRST full size tri to use a foil system nearly identical to that developed for the Fire Arrow. In fact , because of the trouble they had with the stb rudder at the start of the Middle Sea Race she may have actually foiled on port tack w/o the stb rudder. I'm going to be looking into this.

    Maserati at the finish-note no stb rudder:
    Maserati wins Middle Sea 2018.jpg


    Fire Arrow foiling on port tack with no ama rudder foil-only a t-foil on the center rudder. This is the exact same configuration Maserati had today :
    MPX_Fire_Arrow-First_Full_Flying_Foiling_on_video-7-24-14_011.JPG

    Fire Arrow foiling on stb tack with no ama rudder t-foil-only a center t-foil:
    MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling on video-7-24-14 012 (3) - Copy.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Gitana 17 Foil System Tech: very similar to the way the Fire Arrow Foil System works except Gitana has two rudder t-foils lifting at the same time*-Fire Arrow only has a single rudder t-foil but otherwise the systems are virtually identical except that the lift of the main foil on Fire Arrow is automatically controlled by a mechanical surface sensor(wand).
    *the two foil flaps are down 6 degrees on the outboard foil and down 4 degrees on the center rudder t-foil.
    Check out the extraordinary video(at bottom of the page) in post 111 and then Dolfimans translation of the info at the end of the 3D video in post 112
    here: Gitana 17-100' Trimaran Foiler-Launch 7/17/17 https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/gitana-17-100-trimaran-foiler-launch-7-17-17.58231/page-8
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Great article here posted by Dolfiman:
    LIFT OFF…Designers VPLP on the ULTIME's Flying Time | Route du Rhum - Destination Guadeloupe https://www.routedurhum.com/en/news/230

    I've said this a million times about Fire Arrow ,about WOLF and as a major characteristic of the Fire Arrow Foil System- coming from VPLP is very exciting:

    VPLP: "On these big boats, when you ease a sail, it is a pain because it takes so long to grind it back in. But here you press a button and the angles of incidence change. And with the foil on the daggerboard you can use it to alter the flight according to the wind. If it builds, rather than easing the sheet you increase the righting moment by increasing the angle and conversely, as it eases you can reduce it and let it fly more."
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ====================================
    Well, I'm in the new place and I guess the sunsets are gone.
    --------------------
    I wish everybody racing in the Route du Rhum ,starting tomorrow, good luck and a safe race. The three major Ultims using the revolutionary new foil system are going to learn a lot especially after the sheer terror goes away-the weather seems like it may be tough thru the first 2-3 days or so.
    The good news is that the foil system makes the boats more seaworthy even in tough conditions. The bad news is that they may be limited in how much they can fly.
    --
    Go Gitana!
    picture by Yann Riou:
    Gitana 17 from Voile mag.jpeg
     
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