High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow Foil System-first of its kind on any trimaran! Elements developed first by Fire Arrow include:
    1) the first trimaran in history to use uptip ama foils,
    2) the first trimaran in history to use a single wand controlled main foil capable of downforce,
    3) the first trimaran in history to use Two Stage Amas.(see Spec sheet post below for Two-Stage Ama pictures)

    Fire Arrow Test Model:
    MPX assembled 2 008.JPG MPX_Fire_Arrow-Port Tack 7-24-14.JPG MPX_Foiling--_Foil_Assist-Flying_Main_hull_Over_Powered_009 - Copy.JPG

    WOLF daughter of Fire Arrow:
    WOLF 14 conept model rig-8-7-18 004.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF daughter of fire arrow
    Latest Update 8/8/18
    ==================
    WOLF specs(tentative) :
    LOA 14.8' changed 6/2/18
    Max Beam 16'changed 6/14/18
    CL ama hull to CL ama hull-14' added 6/14/18
    Target weight 175-190lb
    SA-(mast length 24' all carbon wing mast) added 8/8/18

    --upwind: 167 sq.ft changed 8/7/18
    --downwind: 267 sq.ft changed 9/7/18
    --max pressure before depowering/reefing: 1.79lb/sq.ft changed 8/7/18*
    * NOTE-see post below- 2763- for max pressure comparison with an F18.
    RM-max righting moment=4460ft.lb.. added 8/8/18


    ------------------------------------------------
    Advantages:


    1-Singlehander-will not have the capability of taking two people for a ride with high performance upwind. Downwind will foil with a crew weight around 340lb in 6.5-7.5 knots of wind. Excellent upwind performance with 220lb crew. changed 8/8/18
    2- Will foil in 5 knots of wind with 220lb crew . changed 8/8/18
    3-Carbon rotating wing mast, carbon cross arms and carbon foils.
    4-Retractable foils(from cockpit). Mainfoil retracts flush with bottom and tips are designed to not dig into sand. Rudder foil retracts above bottom. Ama foils retract above waterline when boat is level.
    5-Extremely comfortable.
    6-Uses the Fire Arrow Foil System(like Fire Arrow, Gitana 17, Banque Pop and Maserati)-- the same as the original system first used on the Test Model. Two UptiP ama foils-one used at a time-and one wand controlled mainfoil for very early takeoff and capable of substantial downforce all working with a single rudder T-foil. Downforce can be virtually
    instantaneous adding RM in response to gusts. expanded 7/6/18
    7-Foiling throughout the wind range -including very light air-the essence of 3D SAILING!
    8- Assy Spin/Screecher retracted under the front deck.
    added 6/3/18
    9- Boat folds from max beam to trailerable width in about 4 minutes. No waterstays. added 6/14/18
    10-Mid (wish)boom mainsheet so sheet is always in forward hand and extention tiller always in aft hand. added 6/14/18
    11-Quickly self-draining cockpit-large scuppers with backflow flap. added 6/14/18

    12-Adjustable angle of incidence of planing surface of each ama simultaneously. Angle of incidence of ama foil has to be changed when this is done. Planing surface starts at +4 degrees. added 6/29/18
    13- Uses Two-Stage Amas-see pictures below. They consist of a planing ama hull(Stage One) coupled to a "curved piece"(Stage Two) that provides extra buoyancy in the event of a knockdown. Curved piece facilitates high dihedral crossarms which keep the crossarms clear of the water. added 8/8/18
    14- Aerodynamic surfaces added to forward and aft crossarms. Adjustable flaps added on rear cross each side. Jib foot and forward part of main foot to be sealed to deck. changed 8/8/18
    15- Planing ama hulls designed for incidental contact with water at speed and for inadvertent contact at slow speed. added 8/8/18
    -------

    ==================
    Memorable quote from JG Baker, Designer and Builder of the Monitor foiler in the 1950's:
    " The main need is to lower the wind velocities required for flying in order to increase the opportunities for high speed travel."
    ===============
    MPX-two stage ama 2.JPG MPX-Two Stage Ama.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Max pressure for F18 before depowering or reefing ( correction to post 2697) :

    1) The max pressure for an F18 based on 227sq.ft. SA, CE at 16.75', 2-180lb crew on trapezes and 5827.25 ft.lb. RM is 1.53lb/sq.ft..

    ---
    2) Max pressure for WOLF with 167 sq.ft. SA, CE at 14.92', one 220lb crew sitting in a comfortable sliding seat, and 4460ft.lb RM is 1.79 lb/sq.ft..
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF daughter of fire arrow-- Retracted foils: main foil is flush with bottom, rudder foil is above bottom and ,with the boat sitting level, the ama foils don't touch the sand.
    Starboard sliding seat is most of the way outboard....


    WOLF 14  retracted foils  8-13-18 007.JPG

    WOLF 14  retracted foils  8-13-18 005.JPG

    WOLF 14  retracted foils  8-13-18 008.JPG

    WOLF 14  retracted foils  8-13-18 011.JPG
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow Foil System---first pioneered on the Fire Arrow Test Model and now the basic system is being used on these fantastic trimaran foilers.
    Every one of these center main foils is capable of generating downforce. Every one of these boats is using UptiP ama foils except Maserati which is using an ama foil that works like an UptiP foil-an "L" foil installed at an angle:


    Maserati , pix by Gulain Grenier:
    Maserati with fire arrow foil system.jpg
    Maserati facebook pix:
    Maserati flying-maserati facebook.jpg

    Gitana 17, pix by Yann Riou:
    Gitana Foiling!.jpg

    Banque Populaire picture by - voile.banquepopulaire.fr :
    Banque Populaire no pix credit.jpg

    Macif-no foiling pictures yet but here's a photo of the adjustable main foil similar in function to the main foil on Fire Arrow and every one of these boats-pix from Macif facebook-(© Arnaud Pilpré / Macif)
    Macif main foil  7-31-18.jpg

    UPDATE-first foiling pix of Macif-
    pix by Alexis Courcoux:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Gitana_foiling_Stichelbaut.jpg
    pix by Benoit Stickelbaut
    Gitana 17 using the basic Fire Arrow Foil System independently designed for Gitana by Guillaume Verdier-most spectacular video:


     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  7. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Arrr this is where you hide, very impressive, hey you must fit this thing with electronic foil control, do you have a float foil that can be retrofitted to work with motors ?
     
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  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    There's a couple of things I'd like to try on WOLF(see pictures and specs above) :
    A) with UptiP foils: I'd like to use an electro-hydraulic(correction:electro-mechanical*) system to change the angle of incidence of the uptip ama foils based on the position of the main foil wand such that the system would increase the AOI of the ama foils at takeoff when the wand causes the mainfoil flap to go down for max lift.
    B) when you get your altitude control system working;
    1- I'd like to ditch the mainfoil wand altogether and tie the mainfoil flap AND the AOI of the ama foils together based on your altitude sensor,
    2-Depending on how small and simple the electro-hydraulic* system and the sensor is , I'd like to try T-foils on the ama's instead of UptiP foils.
    First, though, I've got to get the boat built!
    ---------------
    The smallest boat I know of the uses something like an electro-hydraulic* system to change the AOI of the main and rudder foils in response to manual input via a transmitted signal on the boat is the SuperFoiler--checkout the video below:
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  9. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    This is why I am keen to develop in a pool, I know that anything over 20kts out on water and all you will be focused on is keeping your **** together. That's why I am sure electronic control is the way to go, when they developed the flying wing it was the same thing, too much attention was needed by the pilot, only when fly by wire came along were any of those designs possible. I want to go hydraulic for my boat because of the feedback you get and a lot less moving parts but with a hydraulic setup you are talking 50kgs minimum just for the batteries and pump so it's not small craft stuff. I am also keen to do away with all the conventional stuff like ropes and leaning out for balance and hulls even.
     
  10. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    I like your 2 stage amas I was also looking at stages but one in the water and the other stage swung up and out the way on a ruddy great hinge. currrent1.jpg
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    SuperFoiler-electro-mechanical foil rake control ML, read the attached pdf-has more detail on the SF system. The "passive" part of the system is another way of describing how uptip foils work.
    For the "active" portion of control they use electro-mechanical actuators rather than the electro-hydraulic I mentioned earlier.
    ----
    Their control system also allows differential control of the rudder foil flaps to allow the windward rudder foil to develop downforce to increase righting moment.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    Yeah this is the same system they used in the America's Cup boats. The reason they did it this way was to comply with the rules not because it was the best way. I want to use an active system. I'm also approaching it as an aircraft that is trying to get forward speed by dipping a keel into the water, the difference between air and water drag is so great that if you can do it with an aeronautical device than that is the way to go, as soon as you can achieve lift from the air then you want to get rid of the foils altogether. I also like the way they have redefined active and passive the exact opposite from convention.
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ML, the SuperFoilers certainly didn't use a system based on any rules. And I don't get what you're saying about "active" and "passive"--seemed right to me? The UptiP foils used on the SF control altitude within a given range automatically(passively)........ The same type of foil as I used on the Fire Arrow Test model that maintained the same altitude thru a wide range of speed and load(passively).
    PS-I may be wrong-I'll have to look it up but I think the AC 50's used an "electro-hydraulic" control system as opposed to the "electro -mechanical" system on the Super Foilers.
    =====================
    Active=manual, wand control, electronic control
    Passive=surface piercing foils, uptip foils(depending on design)
    ====================
    This company has attempted to "proprietorize" their active wand control system even though it was invented years ago:
    FlySafe ® Automatic Foils | iFLY15 https://iflysail.com/flysafe-automatic-foils/
    "COME AND TEST SAIL THE iFLY®15 : EXPERIENCE THE SUPERIOR STABILITY AND PERFORMANCE OF STATE OF THE ART ACTIVE FOIL CONTROL vs. traditional passive foil configurations"
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  14. MurphyLaw
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    MurphyLaw Senior Member

    I was watching the TV series about the America's cup, the system where the foil sits in cartridge that allows you to rotate the rake of the foil, they did it that way because the rules did not allow you to directly control the pitch of the foil, forgotten what the rules were but the system was designed to indirectly alter the pitch of the foil by raking it
    Active in the rest of the techno world means the electronics are active and have taken over, it's so widely used in that sense when computers are controlling devices, I expect a lot of boats to have accidents if they use it to mean human control, if I knew something had a computer controlling it and a switch marked active I'd expect the system to be......active, not in human control mode.
    I'm thinking of going straight to hydraulics, the cost of gears is crazy and they are friction and maintenance monsters. A keel with 2 x 3mm hydraulic pipes running through it is strong keel a keel with rods and levers will be weak. Boat hydraulics are super cheap, most of the stuff from trucks is more than good enough for me anyway, I don't see the need to shift more than 5 tonnes, and if you are using electronics to control them then 2 wires 2 pipes and 2 bolts one either side of the cylinder is all that is needed to move stuff. The best thing about a hydraulic system is even if the boat is torn in two, you can bend pipes shut and then attach a hand pump and get what ever you want to work operational and other than pipes it doesn't damage easily. If your foil jams in one of those cartridges things, it's not coming out without getting to a port.
     

  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    UptiP ama foils: These foils are one of the most significant developments in foil design. They can be designed to control flight altitude automatically regardless of speed and load *and can require almost no adjustment while flying. This makes them perfect lifting foils for trimaran amas:
    *See pictures "A" and "B" at the bottom of this post-they illustrate that the flight altitude of the ama on Fire Arrow remains the same irregardless of very different speed and load during and after takeoff.

    -----The invention of UptiP foils:
    Link to Part 1 and Part 2: America's Cup 2007 2010 2013 - Feature Articles Index - From Cupinfo.com http://www.cupinfo.com/en/featuresindex.php
    Quote from the article,Part 1:
    When we were working on the rule, we knew you wanted to get as much lift as possible when you were going fast downwind,” Melvin says. "For instance, in the 2010 America’s Cup, sailed on giant multihulls, the maximum amount of lift we thought we could get was about 50% of the weight of the boat. At that time, we were still relying on the hull to provide pitch control, so what’s come out of this is the boats all now have elevators (the horizontal foils on the rudders).

    “At Team New Zealand, we developed a new type of foil that allows you to keep your height above the water more or less steady. No one had been able to do that before, at least not on a course-racing boat that was not going downwind. We developed that mostly on our SL33 test boats -- they came with the stock constant curvature “C” foils and with those kinds of foils, you can generate 50% boat weight lift before they get unstable. But we noticed that when we could get one boat up fully foiling for a few seconds it would really accelerate away from the other boat – and that got the wheels turning. How, with such a huge potential benefit, can we achieve stable flight downwind? So our design team came up with the “up-tip” type of boards. We refined those on the 33s and our 72 is designed to do that and fortunately it worked right [out] of the box.”

    =====================================


    ---UptiP ama foil for Fire Arrow. Note the "tip droop":
    pictures by DL and/or Dan Burke-
    MPX ama + ama = cat --foil comparison 011.JPG

    ---UptiP ama foil for Gitana 17. Note the "tip droop" similar (but more) than Fire Arrow:
    picture by Fred Monsonnec/FOILERS!-
    gitana-17-foil-babord-f-monsonnec-04-04-17.jpg


    ---Maserati's foil is an "L" foil but installed at an angle so the foil works like an UptiP foil:
    picture by Gulain Grenier-
    Maserati-0457-copia.jpg Maserati uptip ama foil.png

    ---UptiP ama foil for Banque Populaire:
    picture by voilebanquepopulaire.fr-
    Banque Populaire UptiP ama foils.jpg

    ---UptiP ama foil(s) for Macif:
    picture by Arnaud Pilpre-
    Macif in the shed just before launch.jpg

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Picture "A"-Fire Arrow just beginning to takeoff-note flight altitude of port ama: MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling --ama altitude--A.jpg

    ------------
    Picture "B"- Fire Arrow is now flying at about double the speed of "A"above and with much more load on the port ama foil--yet flight altitude of the port ama is the same:
    MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling---ama altitude B.jpg

     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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