High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF---daughter of fire arrow

    The Fire Arrow Variation now has a working name and here are some shots of a very rough concept model.
    LOA-14.75'
    --
    Sail Area-
    a.-upwind- 150sq.ft.
    b. downwind- 150+130=280sq.ft.
    --
    Beam-
    a.-"U" version-16' with folding carbon crossarms and uptip foils
    b.-"W" version-8' platform, 15' overall with retracting Welbourn type foils
    --
    Weight- 185lb all up including foils and rig
    -------------
    See previous posts on "Fire Arrow Variation". Basic concept is a foiling trimaran using the Fire Arrow Foiling System with extremely comfortable seating
    and very light air takeoff. My personal fun boat.
    At this point everything can change. Tentatively, the boat will be built using styrofoam cut by an Architectural Foam firm and assembled and tweaked by me. Then another company will do one layer of 5.8oz carbon + reinforcement followed by gluing on sheets of thin Dragon Plate which will provide a stunning high gloss finish with nearly zero finish work(except for the corners). Hugh Welbourn built a 27' DSS proto using styro(EPS, I think).

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    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF---daughter of fire arrow

    At this point I don't want an asy spin or screecher that furls like the Weta-I want to be able to pull it down under the forward "cowling"/deck so its not drag upwind. Room for it will be built in as shown in this picture:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati with Fire Arrow Configuration

    Once again:
    --------------------
    In one of the wildest things that has happened in a while a guy on another forum discovered that Maserati is the FIRST fullsize trimaran to use a lifting foil on the daggerboard in combination with an UptiP foil on the stb ama!!!!!
    Very similar to the Fire Arrow configuration conceived of 6 years ago and tested successfully in light air two years ago!
    ----
    Heres what the Maserati guys say about the Fire Arrow system-it may sound familiar to anyone that has read this thread:

    First* trimaran in the world to fly with effortless stability on the horizontal loading-bearing surface of her centerboard, Maserati Multi70 brilliantly puts into practice Guillaume Vernier and his Team’s idea of flying on three resting points using a load-bearing centerboard, L-foil and a rudder instead of the two rudders and single foil adopted on America’s Cup cats.
    Giovanni Soldini and his Team are engaged in a new challenge as they endeavour to turn Maserati Multi70 into the first ocean-going flying trimaran. An ambitious project that spans not just Guillaume Vernier’s excellent work (he worked on the modifications to her appendages) but also over 4.000 nautical miles of sailing clocked up by the Team this summer.
    The straight central daggerboard plays a revolutionary role in this new flying trim as the horizontal load bearing surface at its end generates lift, raising the boat out of the water. “When Maserati Multi70 rises up on her lateral foil and rudder, the daggerboard wing acts as a third resting point – the central and largest one”.
    Tests in wind of 40 knots have demonstrated that Maserati Multi70 is now much more stabilized and able to fly in conditions unthinkable before. Safely tackling also big seas.


    * Fire Arrow was the first trimaran to use this configuration!


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    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  4. David Cooper
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    David Cooper Senior Member

    In which case, your chances of getting some backing from him are higher. I will restate my belief that an ideal foiler for the Paralympics could come out of your design and it would be a great prestige project.
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF / Fire Arrow Foil System / Self-Righting

    One of the things I haven't been able to test on the Fire Arrow(see p160, post 2400) is the self-righting capability. That I will test on the full size boat if I can get it built. I think it can work. The Quant 23 foiling keelboat has broken down the "barriers" erected in the past saying that no foiler could fly if it carried lead ballast. Whether or not it can work on a foiling trimaran still needs to be proven one way or the other.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF---daughter of fire arrow

    Major decision tonight: no Welbourn foils on Wolf. She will be designed and built virtually identical to the Fire Arrow Test Model except for some changes to the shape of the main hull and the seating. The ama foils will be UptiP foils that will be retractable. The Test Model was done originally as an exact scale model of a 19.5' sport tri with a 22' beam. WOLF will be 14.75' LOA with a 16' beam. It will use a folding system I came up with for another tri a few years ago where there is a sliding tube in each crossarm that slides away to allow integral hinges to permit the outer 4' of the crossarm to fold with the low buoyancy ama. To fold you simply slide the tube and fold. Should take about one minute per side for one person.

    Note-dimensions will be different and foil will be different than shown for Wolf but the concept will be the same:
    click-
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Downforce vs ballast-something to think about

    I've been looking for this quote for some time. Its Tom Speer on ballast vs foil downforce. I found it here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sa...lass-sailboat-racing-rule-uccsrr-31154-5.html

    I asked Mark Pivac, designer of Spitfire, why water ballast instead of using negative lift on the windward foil. His answer was, "Because you only have to lift it once."

    Which was dead on, of course. Whether you use ballast or negative lift to windward, the leeward foil has to support the download. There's no induced drag penalty for ballast, but there is for down-force - you're lifting it twice. And the induced drag penalty is even greater because while the induced drag penalty on the windward foil is only proportional to the down-force times itself, the induced drag penalty on the leeward foil is the down-force times the total lift on the leeward foil.

    __________________
    Tom Speer
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Dual Independent Wand(feeler) Systems/ Wand/ manual mainfoil plus Uptip Ama Foils

    It should be pointed out that the concept of downforce on the windward foil has been used successfully on several production multihulls: 40' SKAT, 18' Whisper, 18' Osprey, 16' Rave, 14' S9 and the Hobie Trifoiler which also set a couple (or more) speed records(Long Shot) using a system that Greg Ketterman calls "Dynamic Leveling" which, like the other systems, is based on dual, independent altitude control systems but using "feelers" that stick out in front of the boat instead of wands.
    The wand based system has been proven in initial testing on the Fire Arrow. The 70' Maserati has a manually controlled system for adjusting the main foil AOI and is also capable of generating downforce.
    The Wolf version of a 14' foiler using the Fire Arrow Foil System will use a wand based and manually controlled main foil AOI for testing and use downforce both automatically and manually. The wand system on a small boat instantaneously creates downforce in response to wand movement and can therefore automatically respond to gusts to maximize the RM of the boat.
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    UptiP Foils for a Trimaran Ama

    These foils are excellent for use on a trimaran because they can be designed to have a wide range of very good altitude control that is mostly independent of speed and load changes.
    One of the problems in using these foils on cats is that the windward foil has to be retracted every time the boat tacks or gybes so in testing of various foils for the new Nacra 17 while UptiP foils were faster downwind they were not as "crew friendly" as the surface piercing foils that allowed the two main foils to remain down all the time.
    But on a trimaran designed for them UptiP foils do NOT have to be retracted with every tack or gybe-they can be left in place if the crossarm dihedral is designed specifically to allow this.
    The Fire Arrow has the UptiP foil installation designed specifically for this as will the Wolf 14' fullsize foiler tri.
    --
    The first post of this thread has a study done on the potential Nacra 17 foils-go to page 26 and see the performance difference downwind with Uptip foils
    vs other foils:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/uptip-foils-56652.html
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Wolf-daughter of Fire Arrow

    Here's a possible "logo" and or sail insignia for the new boat, should it get built:




    [​IMG]
     
  12. David Cooper
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    David Cooper Senior Member

    Using a word is lazy - you need to get an artist to design a wolf shaped logo (in a pose that gives it the distinct jizz of a wolf so that it isn't mistaken for a dog). The arrow and wolf ideas don't have any obvious connection, so the above image shows a name clash (although the felled tree idea could work with a beaver).
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF---daughter of fire arrow

    The arrow ties in the fact that the boat is based on the Fire Arrow Foil System.
    But there must be a better solution. There's plenty of time as things stand now..

    This ain't no dog:
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow Foiling System Testing and Development

    More on downforce-again:

     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    WOLF---daughter of fire arrow-

    Here is an update of the original specs--and more:

    WOLF
    LOA-14.75'
    --
    1--Sail Area-
    a.-upwind- 155sq.ft.
    b. downwind- 155+130=285sq.ft.
    --
    2--Beam-
    a.-"U" version-16' with folding carbon crossarms
    --
    3--Weight- 200lb all up including foils and rig-capable of foiling with two adults aboard.
    Note: upwind lb/sq.ft. of sail area using a 180lb crew for both boats shows the Wolf to have better sail loading than a Moth:
    a. Moth 180+66=246lb---Sail Area 86 sq.ft.--lb/sq'SA= 2.86
    b. Wolf 180+200=380lb---Sail Area(upwind) 155sq.ft.--lb/sq'SA=2.45
    ----Downwind Sail Area 285sq.ft--lb/sq'SA=1.33
    --
    4--The two stage amas for this boat are very similar to the Fire Arrow Test Model and are used to help prevent capsize and keep the drag low during inadvertent immersion of the ama hull. They are used in combination with the high dihedral crossarms. The ama hulls themselves are planing hulls designed to reduce drag due to inadvertent contact with the water at speed.On WOLF the actual planing surface may be adjustable for testing. See p 2376, page 159 for more including pictures.
    --
    5--Foils:
    a. Single mainfoil- equipped with a wand controlled flap that allows the foil to unload after takeoff and to then develop downforce as required which dramatically increases the righting moment of the boat. The downforce function of the mainfoil is instantaneous and will respond to gusts automatically. Downforce can be regulated and/or "turned off". AOI of the foil is adjustable for the conditions but is basically a "set it and forget it" system.
    b. Ama foils- each ama is equipped with a retractable uptip foil that has intrinsic altitude control within a wide range. Uptip foils were originally invented by TNZ in AC 34 and have been proven in many different boats since then.
    c. Single rudder T-foil-this is a retractable foil whose AOI can be adjusted, though it will seldom be required.
    -------------
    See previous posts on "Fire Arrow Variation". Basic concept is a foiling trimaran using the Fire Arrow Foiling System with extremely comfortable seating
    and very light air takeoff. My personal fun boat. I owe a debt of gratitude to Team Maserati and to Guillaume Verdier whose work with their stunningly similar foil system has
    convinced me to go ahead with a full size version of the Fire Arrow. This will be a tough project to complete for a lot of reasons but an important one that will further illustrate the advantages of the Fire Arrow Foil System for a small sport trimaran.
    At this point everything can change. Tentatively, the boat will be built using styrofoam cut by an Architectural Foam firm and assembled and tweaked by me. Then another company will do one layer of 5.8oz carbon + reinforcement followed by gluing on sheets of thin Dragon Plate which will provide a stunning high gloss finish with nearly zero finish work(except for the corners). Hugh Welbourn built a 27' DSS race boat using EPS-and that boat is still racing after years on the water.
    ============
    As I do the final design for this boat* I'm also building a new version of the concept model which will illustrate the final appearance of WOLF very closely. Stay tuned.
    * As I have time over the next few months.......
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
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