High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fast comfortable foiling! Fire Arrow 20 and.......

    For years in discussions about foilers I have pushed the idea for a small foiler that is fast and very comfortable. Many said that is simply impossible since a foiler has to be extraordinarily light to foil. The Fire Arrow is designed to be extraordinarily comfortable as well as fast, dry and easy to sail.
    But this week the essence of the idea of comfortable foiling was launched in St. Martin- proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the concept of a "comfortable foiler" works fullsize. So here is the G4 video-an historic video since the G4 is the very first production cruiser/racer foiler in the history of mankind:
    https://vimeo.com/124676763
     
  2. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Houston, TX

    2far2drive Senior Member

    Doug,

    I know you and I have had our disagreements and I hate to present another one. But ill meet you halfway,ok?

    I have to agree that the boat is comfortable beyond what I thought they could do! I'm very impressed by that boat and what they have achieved, even if you must be a very seriously comfortable multimillionaire to buy one. Toys for the rich, but alas, I'm starting a class war.

    I disagree slightly because I looked at all the pictures and while comfortable, the boat is stripped to the max. The berths below show the raw carbon of the hull and components /wiring. While I'm nitpicking, I'm just pointing it out that a wife still might balk at this.

    I also noticed the aft section of the bridgedeck is only closed by canvas? Presumably to save weight I'm sure but I would be a little hesitant in an Atlantic crossing with such a configuration.

    But you are right. This is the most "comfortable" race/foiling configurating we have seen yet, even if its target market is the ultra rich.

    Exciting times indeed!
     
  3. pogo
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    pogo ingenious dilletante

    And the conclusion, your conclusion ? ;)
    Perhaps :
    " Man! A man ain't no man , when a man ain' t got no foil, man !" :D:D:

    But, after the german band Kraftwerk:
    "He has a model and it looks quite good"
    :D:D:D

    So, what' s it all about, year for year ?:confused:

    pogo


    P.S.
    O.K., O.K......
    I' m mean, but this actual foileritis is in my opinion far from .....
    We should go a step backwards , no , we should make a step beside for seeing it more objectiv.
    Howling with all wolves ain' no step forward.
    Being reasonable means not to follow the extremes, the actual hype.
    Calme toi !!


    I wanna give you a less extreme example to think about:
    The symmetricc aft foil of the Catris , a real , an automatic non articulating stabilizer ( longitudal trim) for the much more practical stystem of " only" foil- assistance. *


    * I guess Grainger uses for his inverted rudder T- foils on the foil assisted Rascal 25 symmmetric foils. Check it out !
    concerning foils there is much more than " copy&past- fanposting-of - vids"
     
  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow and .....

    =================
    I don't really disagree with you. Stripped to the max but including electric drive power multiple berths a small galley and the very first of it's kind in a production boat. The thing that excites me is the princible behind the design which is similar to my approach for the last 10+ years (except on much smaller boats). G4 opens doors most people didn't suspect were closed because they thought this concept to be impossible. Like you say-exciting times!
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Fire Arrow and Trimaran Foiles

    ---------------------
    Thanks, Pogo-I think. Actually, you kind of lost me. I'm familiar with the Catri and less familiar with the Grainger. I think I read that Grainger is coming out with a full flying foiler before long-in contrast to the Catri which is "foil -assist"-still cool but doesn't fully fly -that I've seen anyway.
     
  6. pogo
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Germany Northsea

    pogo ingenious dilletante

    Nee, nix da ! Bau ' n Schiff !!!



    Naah, nothin' there , build a boat !!!!




    Ein Schiff, kein Boot , ein Schiff !
    Build a Vessel , not a model, not a dinghy, , not a boat,.
    Build a reliable "Ship" ------here from my far away-into my gin;)
     
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  7. rcnesneg
    Joined: Sep 2013
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    Location: Utah

    rcnesneg Senior Member

    Wow! They've gone and done it! They've made a gunboat foil! Very very nice!
     
  8. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Get better soon, Doug.
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Thanks, Hoyt-I'm working at it.....
     
  10. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Osprey

    I was looking at a friends Company online when I ran into this video of the Osprey 18. The boat was designed by Dr. Sam Bradfield, my friend and mentor who, sadly, passed away a while ago. I was on the beach for the very first test sail of this boat while Dr. Sam was still around.She sailed perfectly first time out and foiled in about 6-7kts of wind. Osprey is 18'LOA and 22' wide-foil tip to foil tip(very close to Fire Arrow's fullsize dimensions of 19.5'LOA X 22' beam). Both boats use 3 foils in the water and both can use the foils to develop extra RM.Osprey is designed to sail nearly flat and Fire Arrow with a 10 degree angle of heel.
    Osprey was built by Matt McDonald at Falcon Marine, LLC in Port Canaveral.
    Dr. Sam taught me a lot about foiler design but his most important gift to me was his infectious enthusiasm for foiling! This is a video taken near here not too long after the first launch:
    https://vimeo.com/35372827
     
  11. Darth Reapius
    Joined: Mar 2014
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    Darth Reapius Junior Member

    Out of curiosity Doug, what foil section shape did you use for the "C" proportion of your amas foils? (or NACA section for the while foil if the shape doesnt change at the intersection of the tip and C)
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    A slightly thinner version of a 63412. 10% rather than 12% T/C ratio_On the whole vertical portion of the foil. The part of the foil from the radius to the tip uses the iFlap on one side and an even thinner version of 63412 on the other side.
    The foils are set up so the iFlap can be directly tested against the foil with no iFlap. The idea is to do these tests on the next sail and determine if the IFlap can be reduced or eliminated on both ama foils.
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    A slightly thinner version of a 63412. 10% rather than 12% T/C ratio_On the whole vertical portion of the foil. The part of the foil from the radius to the tip uses the iFlap on one side and an even thinner version of 63412 on the other side.
    The foils are set up so the iFlap* can be directly tested against the foil with no iFlap. The idea is to do these tests on the next sail and determine if the iFlap can be reduced or eliminated on both ama foils.
    *The iFlap is an intrinsic 15 degree flap added to the twisted "uptip" portion of the foil for early takeoff. Thru testing it will be reduced in area and/or eliminated if possible.,po
    -----
     

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  14. Doug Halsey
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Doug Halsey Senior Member

    Thanks for posting the video of Osprey. I hadn't seen that one before.

    I do have one question, though, & I hope you won't think it impertinent :

    Why would a videographer use so much slow-motion in a presentation of a type of boat whose main appeal is speed & excitement? I think it makes it look dull & slow.
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Beats me. Maybe Dr.Sam wanted to highlight the light air "grace" of the boat. In the video, top speed was only about 14 knots and the wind was 6-7 knots.
     
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