Hi-res, Hi-realism boat design renderings

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by JonathanCole, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    In a one man design office I am currently creating 3D Rhino models directly from the initial pencil sketch. Thus I am "designing" the boat in 3D. The 2D (AutoCAD) construction drawings are extracted from the 3D model.

    I have to work efficiently and eliminate repeating any step. The 3D model "sells" the concept. Clients don't have the option of 3D model or not, it's how I design the boat. But I don't have time for highly detailed photo realistic modeling, I stick to the basics, the big lumps that give a good idea of the 3D form.

    I don't particularly like the Flamingo renderings, they have become rather generic in this business. But it's simple to use without another importation in and out of another program. I have recently started trying to use Bryce to get more control over the renderings, but it's another program to learn and will take time.

    3401green02.jpg

    PB38blue01.jpg

    29yellowblue01.jpg
     
  2. bobg3723
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: Crystal, MN - USA

    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Hi Tad,
    I always liked your trawler designs. To my eyes, they represent an emphasis on a no-nonsense nature of form following function, an esthetic that stands the test of time and fashion.
    Ultra fine ray-traced, spectral radiosity, ultra-WOW renderings and compositing is about leveraging an already well engineered design as an even greater stand out in the attention grabbing manner of getting a design noticed throughout the media outlets (and blogs too). And I like them as much as the next guy, no question about that.
    But in the end, no render farm can replace the intellect of the NA responsible for its creation and execution. At least not until they perfect artificially intelligent naval architects. And even then, someone has to input the "fashionable" parameter. :D

    I would like to ask if, you only had one package that comes closest to "doing it all" (rendering notwithstanding) what package would that be and why? I'll let you decide what aspects best constitute a complete (or near complete) package.

    Regards,
    Bob

    Best regards,
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
  3. cats4me
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: UK / SA

    cats4me Junior Member

    I've been leeching these forums a while following the excellent NA input. This thread is of particular interest to me, I've been fortunate to have a hands-on background mostly in the fields of Architecture, Industrial, Mechanical, and Automotive design, a lot of ergonomics, and graphic software development (I wrote a architectural renderer for PC's in the days rendering was only done on mainframes). Throughout my years, I have used a multitude of modeling and rendering tools, and I'd say the ones that stick out to me as good tools are Autodesk's 3D Studio and Cinema4D.

    However, I'd like to throw a different methodology in the pot - and hopefully not heat it up till it boils over :)

    While blingy photo-realistic renderings are great for media prints etc, I've been swinging towards interactive design tools over the years - maybe because of my strong ergonomic roots and needing the man-machine interaction to be optimal. While there are many out there, and certainly the top modeling apps have/will have their offerings available, I have found that a great (free) tool for this is the online 'game'/platform known as Second Life (SL).

    I'm sure at this point many think I am nuts :) ... which is true, relatively speaking.

    There is another that is not released yet and should be much better for content designers - Mwituni (which yours faithfully is involved in).

    The 'renderings' in these tools are obviously lower quality than high-end renderer's, but they are still pretty good. Added to that they have the advantage of rendering in real-time, and being interactive.

    The interactive part is a huge bonus, and I've found once you are used to it its great during design phase - working with the rendered product in real-time. But more importantly offers something very special for your client ... they can login and 'explore' your product in real-time - like a turbo-charged interactive walk-through. Not only that, but they can interact with it (assuming you add the functionality) - eg open doors, walk through the hulls to check headroom and space, sit in a seat and check their viewing angles etc.

    Added to that, they can do this at anytime whether or not you are on-line (should you so wish), so they can become more involved in the design process and thereby start taking design ownership earlier (again should you wish).

    For the customer, this is a great and fun tool : they can have meetings where they have this up on a big screen and can interact with it showing off and discussing certain features etc. It also has the advantage that the content doesn't have to 'die' ... normally a design house puts a lot of effort into renderings and thats it - the content (3d model) dies. This way the content can still be used even after the product is released - eg. customers can keep it hosted in SL as a marketing tool (there are around 10 million SL users). If not for marketing, the customer may keep it simply to 'play' if they are so inclined which may sound crazy but considering most people spend a small part of their year onboard it may not be such a bad idea them sailing about on a virtual replica of their RL pride in winter months (SL objects can be scripted pretty well to drive / sail etc). It simplifies design over global boundaries too.

    If anyone is interested (NA's, Designers etc), I do this for my own projects, as well as take on interactive modeling projects. So if you think this could work in one of your projects I'll be happy to discuss it. Most likely it'll be quite a bit cheaper than using a design house for renderings, and give the added benefits and flexibility. Most of my projects are done on private virtual property (hosted space) which I own with limited access - so that will probably be ideal for most projects unless they want it all open to the public which is fine too.

    While I don't have many yachts in SL to show, I include snaps of 2 i do have : one was just me messing abt and the other a POC based on 38ft Woods hulls. I also include a snap of a fully drive-able car to show what is possible.

    Enjoy :)

    CatPics_06JUN08_001_800x600.jpg CatPics_06JUN08_003_800x600.jpg AtRelease21April2008_013_800x600.jpg
     
  4. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    you have a nice toutch to your renders cats4me and have my thinking on virtual reality, check fabrikman's boat and think that quest viewer is free but that soft goes up to 10k
    we could even make sofisticated boating games here and virtual test tanks etc alway's promoted vrml output where animations can run etc but not to many ever installed that viewer
    attached (dont kill me couse its probably someone elses prop) that is interactif in acrobat 8
     

    Attached Files:

    • prop.pdf
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  5. bobg3723
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: Crystal, MN - USA

    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Cats4Me
    Thanks for sharing. Nice rendering of that Porsche!

    Yipster
    Nice Acrobat U3D document there Yipster. My U3D conversions goes through a bunch of steps and a couple of free software programs off the web. Is it straight to U3D pdf from whatever 3D CAD your using?

    Bob
     
  6. bobg3723
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    Location: Crystal, MN - USA

    bobg3723 Senior Member

    That Fabrikman's boat demo's a fantastic marketing tool. Technology marches on and before too long every Graphic Communication and Design student will have the skills to produce "interactive brochures" like these. Here's a Windows Media Player file of that boat. Muy Bueno!
    http://75.125.130.82/download/Demos/Quest3D_Demo_VirtualBoat.wmv
     
  7. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    archnav pointed me at 3d acrobat and works directly from over a dozen cat formats, prop above pdf took less than a minute
    v.8 free reader and 1 month builder download and 3d update at their site, buying v.8.1 3d cost almost a grand
     
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  8. bobg3723
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: Crystal, MN - USA

    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Thanks for the tip Yipster. Until recently, I didn't know Acrobat Reader could read U3D files since version 7. This is proly skirting off topic, but there's a directions on making your own Acrobat U3D files using freeware at
    http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/

    It's a minor PITA, but hey, its free!

    Cheers,
    Bob
     
  9. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    How secure are the 3d models ?. Does the pdf contain the entire model or just a 3d projection?
    This was always an issue in the past, that the pdf can be ripped and any embedded cad files are then available to theivery.
     
  10. lukabg3d
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Belgrade

    lukabg3d Junior Member

    Here are some renderings that i have made...
     

    Attached Files:

  11. bobg3723
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: Crystal, MN - USA

    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Hello lukabg3d,
    Outstanding! Nice job.

    I used to have a tri-hull with an elliptical bow similar in circumferance to your third rendering. Gawd I wish I would have kept that hull and plagerized ...er..:D I mean fashioned it along those striking design attributes. Those are truly unique unlike anything I've seen yet.

    Would you mind listing for us what software(s) in this project workflow that you had used?

    Thanks for sharing the goergeous renderings. Dem is defnit chick magnets fo sure! :)

    Best regards,
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2008
  12. lukabg3d
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Belgrade

    lukabg3d Junior Member

    Yes, of course.For modeling and hull designing i have used Maxsurf Pro,Hullspeed,Hidromax Pro,Rhino,Mehanical Desktop, and for renderings i have used Maxwell render and flamingo...

    Cheers!
     
  13. bhnautika
    Joined: Feb 2006
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    Location: australia

    bhnautika Senior Member

    I think the difference between just good render software and excellent is in the ability to manipulate the lighting and reflectance. Most programmes can adequately deal with materials on surfaces even rhino 2 (pic 1) could do some interesting things but to set the mood of a picture, for that is what 3d renderings are, its all about lighting. In the past I have only used the render software that has come with the cad software that I have been using (pic 2) but they miss the subtlety of the dedicated rendering software. It’s a matter of how far you want to go. I have started to read books on photography to learn more on the subject.
     

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  14. cats4me
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: UK / SA

    cats4me Junior Member

    Thx yipster and Bob for the positive comments,

    Virtual tools really open up a whole new dimension to 3D modeling.

    Just to clarify a point other blog readers may not pick up on as I may have been a bit vague ... those aren't static renderings I posted, those are screen-snapshots (using a screengrabber) of the real-time interactive viewer running at 50 frames/sec ... similar to a 3D game. Its a bit like zooming around in the perspective viewport of the 3D modeller you use - except its all fully rendered like in my images with moving waves / weather etc.

    It's pretty impressive once you realize its not static renderings, but you and anyone else worldwide you'd like to share with can freely move around in that model and interact using an accurately scaled animated 3D mannequin.

    The mwituni.com project i mentioned should support caustics as well - so you'll get the God-ray-like effects through the water etc (in realtime), breaking up of light, lens-flare etc, and eventually a proper ocean simulator which will calculate wave motion / current data etc based on terrain form and simulated weather system.

    _________________

    Agreed bhnautika, lighting makes a difference and brings textures to life. In these old incomplete samples, one can see even though the untextured model has no materials, light and shadows give it form, but the addition of textures brings it to life :
    02Mar2007_01_Int_BerthRear_ToFront_800x600.jpg 03Mar2007_02_Int_BerthRear_ToFront_800x600.jpg 03Mar2007_01_Int_BerthRear_Bed_800x600.jpg
     
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  15. bobg3723
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: Crystal, MN - USA

    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Hi bhnautika
    Alot of experts on this board could offer better testimony than me on what it's like using Flamingo, Catia, and more names than I care to remember. All costing beaucoup bucks at that. You and others are absolutely correct in pointing out that it's not just the software used, but how much work and attention to detail you put into the model/mesh. And once piped to the renderer, there setting modeling lights, playing around with shader settings, the waiting....you have to have the proverbial patience of Job.

    For alot of other's like me, the needs are simple for just messing around with boats on CAD and I'm happy with all the freeware/shareware out there to play with. If I had the desire to burn up CPU cycles overnight on a renderer, I have SketchUp and a plug-in for the freeware Kerkythea renderer to play around with ray tracing and natural light rendering. Still, yer fiddling with sliders there as well. :rolleyes:

    Out of pocket expense so far: $90 for IntelliCAD 2000 bought four years ago. For my own needs, man, I couldn't be happier.:D

    Best,
    BobG
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
    1 person likes this.
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