Hi-res, Hi-realism boat design renderings

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by JonathanCole, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    2costa:
    I am naval architect but have education in art also :) I now many naval architects that are great in design. So I believe we do not really need designers to design boat for us. When You say 'naval architect', please pay attention to the word ARCHITECT - this explains everything.

    But for interior design, parts design, etc. - yes, we use interior, product designers.

    One more thing - do not substitute good design by good rendering. It is not same.
     
  2. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    Costa, that is really excellent work! You have demonstrated the concept in a realistic image that is a great example of the impact that such renderings can make. What software do you use? How long does it take to create such an image. Do you start from CAD drawings?
     
  3. costa
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    costa Junior Member

    Yes i agree and already have wrote that there are a lot of naval architects that are great in design. And its the best thing when Naval Architect is also a Great Artist. But its not always this way. You as a naval architect also have an education in art so you are both.
    For me as for a person who firstly took a degree as a transport designer the road is longer. But being inside this field already 6 years starting from 2 course my spezialisation exact in yacht design i hope that one day i could say that i am not just a balast in shipbuilding
    I dont substitute good design by good rendering. There are designers and there are 3d modelers. And render is just a tool for a naval architect and designer for showing the project, thats all
     
  4. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    2costa,
    In Your case - I like Your boats, but I am sure those renderings You have done for NA design office following their expertise.
     
  5. costa
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    costa Junior Member


    this was my diploma project. If not to take that first i am making handle scetches yes, i am making CAD drawings in autocad. The model is possible to create in Rhino program or 3D Max. Well sure 3d max lot of people will call as not a good program for such thing maybe. Final Render i prefer to make in 3d max
     
  6. costa
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    costa Junior Member


    This catamaran you can see its my diploma project. I was creating it from the begining bymyself. Sure i was consultating with constructors about the hull mostly and the whole construction but nothing more.
    Another yacht you can see in my profile also its mine. Was making for 1 firm. They gave me the hull drawings cause it was already done. Also the list of their needs .And they needed to make a yacht based on it.
     
  7. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    This is right way, costa. Let NA define the concept, and work on details and shaping... Well done!
     
  8. costa
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    costa Junior Member

    well if really i dont throw the project after making a consept. i am collaborating with NA. Exact transport design degree is giving to find sometimes not standart solutions for details. Also it is giving a possibility to study from NA ;) not only in theory. I am not into being an artist who is making a beauty picture and thinking that his work is over.
     
  9. urbanvoyage
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    urbanvoyage Junior Member

    3D replies :p

    Eric - thanks for your post. We're charging our renderings on top of the fees charged by the designers and builders. This means that the owner has seen the benefit of having the renderings and is willing to pay over and above for this service. I do agree in part about the size of project; however 3D renderings are also extremely valuable for production boats and marketing.

    Brian Eiland - thanks for the great comments! You can't compare the renderings and drawings - they are just so different! :)

    MikeJohns - Good point about too much glitz. From my point of view, this is more of a personal preference thing (i.e. what serves your design process best) and how demanding your client is! On the Bristolian project we've been involved from the beginning and so our work has evolved throughout the design process and throughout the various stages. It certainly helps to have the concept well resolved before we begin modelling, however because 3D is beneficial throughout the design and build of a boat, it does not matter too much either way.

    The process of modelling, texturing, lighting and rendering yachts in 3D actually brings forward many of the decisions and questions that need to be answered at some point. We find it's a really good catalyst for creating discussion and bringing forward issues that need to be resolved - both technically and aesthetically.

    Mike I would propose that all the details (materials, cloths, patterns and colours) are part of the design and will help to sell your client.

    People - 3D people are very hard to do and there are currently not many options. Either use 3D people in the scene or photographic people in post-production. Both have their draw-backs and are suited for different purposes.

    Surf - 3DS Max is our primary tool.

    JoanathanCole - I agree. Talent is only part of the equation. People can be talented but not prepared to apply themselves and develop their talent. Software these days is so complicated and involved that you need people to be experts in specific areas. The software and hardware can be very expensive. We run a 48 CPU render farm - and you can imagine the time and cost involved with that!

    Costa - I really like your catamaran model. I can see you're still working on the water - it's one of the harder things to replicate well in 3D.

    Alik - I love your comment about substituting good design by good rendering! :) Brilliant. We'll struggle to make a bad design look good no matter how much fancy lighting and rendering we use. That said, what 3D rendering and good lighting can do (like photography) is to highlight the best aspects. :)
     
  10. Fair1
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    Fair1 Junior Member

    Hi guys, I'm a long time reader but first time poster. I am a designer in the Pacific Northwest and do the renderings for my company. With us the renderings are just part of the work process. We simultaneously have NA's defining envelopes and developing hulls while at the same time people like myself are designing the rest of the boat. The same models we use for the NA's calculations are used for rendering and rapid prototyping then eventually when every one is satisfied (designers on the look, NA's on the seaworthyness, and engineers on the structural/machinery aspect) we can send the models wherever to be built ie lofting or cnc etc.

    I think the main reason there are not a lot of beautiful renderings is because the typical make up of the industry. Many older marine designers are still wrapping there heads around switching to 3d let alone photo real rendering. To paraphrase Paul Fuchs "I don't care about occlusion shading and sampling levels or sub surface scattering, I just wanna design boats."

    On the other hand the younger guys coming straight out of school can do some bang up jobs at 3d but need to wrap their heads around the fundamentals of marine design. Mixing both old school and new school together though can produce exceptional results.

    Here are some renderings I did last year for some projects. Oh and also another reason there are not a lot of marine renderings is secrecy. The firms producing the most beautiful renderings don't want the competition copying their designs. Most renderings that are published are usually over a year old, all the good stuff is kept hidden until the project is usually complete.

    Anyways just my two cents...
     

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  11. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    HI Fair1,

    Welcome to the discussion!

    Excellent work! Those images truly leave nothing to the imagination, in the best way. One thing that I notice is that the hi-realism raytraced, texture-mapped renderings are especially well used to illustrate the look of the design from a very human perspective. The closeups give you something close to the effect of actually being there. That's why I think that eventually more and more manufacturers will be using such images to interface with all the interested parties in the boat design and sales process. I would imagine it is actually more cost-effective, for marketing purposes to create such realistic life settings rather than actually taking the constructed vessel and setting it up with a pro photographer. As a guy who wears many hats (design coordinator, marketing strategist, and people organizer) I look at this technology as a tool to get a team organized by the exciting vision of the product.

    Again, great work!
     
  12. costa
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    costa Junior Member

    Urbanvoyage

    Yes i am working on the water, materials and lights and for me it's important to make my skills more high in this field. But mostly for the final realistic render we have a "3d visualisation artist " also because all last time we have clients for whom its not enough even a realistic image, but already an animation on the water. And who are ready to pay for this kind of work.
     
  13. urbanvoyage
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    urbanvoyage Junior Member

    Hi Fair1,

    I had heard that Delta produce really nice renderings - they are Gorgeous! :) Excellent work... if you're ever looking for freelance work give us a call.

    Cheers,
    Rich
     
  14. Fair1
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    Fair1 Junior Member

    Thanks for the compliments guys.

    Jonathan- While these renderings will never replace photos, (though I cant speak for the production boat industry) they do help show the almost exact design. Its great to look at something and not question what the finished prduct will look like. On the other hand it takes a lot of hand sketching and CAD work to get to that stage.

    They do get people excited tough :)
     

  15. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Nice work Alik. In our office, all the guys are trained in ACAD and RHINO but the two best guys are left handed. I won't say there is some scientific basis for this, just statistics. Jon Cole is an exception as his imagination is highly developed.

    Left handed persons are just wired differently. Last week, I saw a guy filling out a receipt, He rotated the form 90 degree clockwise and started to write vertically in his left hand. You would be able to tell the difference from a regular handwriter.

    Rx
     
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