Hi-res, Hi-realism boat design renderings

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by JonathanCole, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    This is the rendering from left-handed man. Maximize the boat, minimize the envioronment...
     

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  2. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    Nice work Alik! Is it your work?
     
  3. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

  4. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    Here is a very high quality rendering from Richard Elliot at Urban Voyage of New Zealand. This quality of presentation is a powerful way to create a strong impression of the product. While there is obviously expense involved, the ability increase interest in a design or a designer has got to be worth it! Rich is a member of BoatDesign.net. Nice work!
     

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  5. urbanvoyage
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    urbanvoyage Junior Member

    Great discussion!

    Wow, I'm really loving this discussion! It's great to have so many marine experts talking about rendering and how they work. :)

    From the "Urban Voyage" perspective, I think the choice between high-res images, vs. simple renderings vs. artistic sketches vs. physical scale models is more about personal preference, working style and what the customer wants/needs.

    I'm amazed with the beauty and talent required to produce hand drawn sketches and think this will always be a natural method for concepting and presenting ideas. Our 3D process normally involves iterations that progressively get better as we move through a project.

    It's not uncommon for the team at Urban Voyage to start with very basic "block" style images that communicate general form and light.

    Omeron your point about money well spent is very valid. It does not matter what industry you are in - people have to communicate ideas and sell things.

    Yipster your point about hi-def is totally accurate - there is more time involved. That said, we are finding that because our pipeline/workflow is well developed, the team can turn around 3D renderings within a couple of days to several weeks.

    We're noticing that software is making leaps and bounds - the flipside being the time it takes to constantly remain ahead of the game or even to stay current is considerable.

    Jonathan Cole - I really like your point about getting the agreement of the customer and/or investor. We are finding that our renderings are used right at the front-end to engage the customer and gain approval/sign-off. What this means for the designer and yard is a quicker (or more accurate) process resulting in less problems and a happier client.

    Alik - agreed. Renderings must serve the design process. Not detract or distort it. We try not to focus on realism (that's a nice by-product), but focus on communicating the right aspects of the design that are unique or need highlighting. We try to communicate the "mood" and "feeling" around a particular space or environment.

    In my view, rendering, or more accurately the process around creating hi-resolution images, can bring various people together. We have experienced first hand how 3D can be a kind of uniting factor that brought the developer, architect and customer to a better end result.

    Alik - The Urban Voyage team is made up of 3D graphic artists, specialists in their field. We are very careful not to promote ourselves as designers. Yes, often we do contribute to the design, however only if requested and if it serves the project. Being a "designer" is very different from being a "3D graphic artist".

    SC1 - I love the renderings, they have a really nice feel to them. The point you make about people wanting to "see" their boat on the water is accurate with us. When selling a Ferrari the guy wants to make you imagine (if not test-drive) what it would be like to sit in it, race around the corners, wind in your hair, etc. I think it's the same with yacht/boat marketing - check out some ads. I think you'll find they promote the lifestyle around owning a luxury boat.

    MikeJohns - We've seen first hand architecture clients spend hundreds of thousands on pitching for work and when you have that much invested, you want make sure you win!

    When you can do photo-real why would you use pseudo-real rendering?

    FAST FRED - perhaps you are right. We've looked into various "3D printing" technology that uses layers of powder and resin to literally "print" a 3D model. I'm not convinced this technology is there yet. The results are ok, however very crude and you'd be better with a scale model. Surely today a DVD in your pocket is just a good as a physical scale model?

    3D printers can easily cost $100k+, there is already 3 (that I know of) in New Zealand and Weta Digital own one!



    Let's keep this thread going! :cool:
    Rich

    P.S. Here is one of our latest WIP yacht renderings:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Yes, the renderings are beautiful, and Oh that we all had the talent to do it. Certainly, the technical resources are available that we may hire it out when necessary. I am not against renderings, far from it. I would provide them in a heartbeat if my clients wanted them and were willing to pay for them. You find out very quickly in the business of yacht design that clients are insanely conservative about design, and are very unwilling to part with their money for the all necessary technical drawings, never mind renderings. If the design budget is no object, then renderings can be part of the package. But the cost of the renderings will certainly be a significant portion of the overall design cost, and you have to convince the owner that the cost for renderings is worthwhile. As I said earlier, in the larger yacht designs, the budget is likely there. In the smaller designs, and for my clients this is boats below 100' LOA, the money is usually not there. At least, so far it isn't. I have never had a specific request for renderings of any of my designs. If I have offered it, the response from the client is always, "I don't need renderings, thanks anyway."

    Eric
     
  7. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Land Architecture vs Boat Design

    When I read this Eric it made me think of a quote I posted recently:

    Houses are but badly built boats so firmly aground that you cannot think of moving them. They are definitely inferior things, belonging to the vegetable not the animal world, rooted and stationary, incapable of gay transition. .

    The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content thenceforward with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place…. When it comes, the desire to build a boat is one of those that cannot be resisted. It begins as a little cloud on a serene horizon. It ends by covering the whole sky, so that you can think of nothing else. You must build to regain your freedom.”


    …excerpted from the preface of ‘The Proper Yacht’

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=155740#post155740

    Brian
     
  8. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    That is a gorgeous design !!

    And here I think the rendering would really help sell this design over just the drawings.
     
  9. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Umm .. yes, you do, and you definitely need to for big project architectural tenders these days.
    ....Time, File-size, necessity, cost of software, end result; which is communicating with the client a general idea of what you are designing.


    Too much glitz can detract from the basics and the basics are where we start. Unfortunately boats are not very amenable to having their details finalized at the start.

    Where in the design spiral do we produce the masterpieces? Boats are subject to alteration as the design progresses. When you've added a foot of beam shifted the cabin top back a foot and added 6" to the sheer fwd and moved the mast…then it's final, then is the time to produce a photo but by then you've been paid ( unless you are a hopeful designer producing stock plans ) . At this point I can see the photorealistic renderings being very useful for the decorators and décor designers in an expensive vessel, as the client can interactively explore different color combinations.


    If we start filling in all the details; materials cloths, patterns colors before we have sold the design then we are designing for ourselves aren't we? Choice of color alone is a good reason to keep the initial design fairly bland, especially when there's clientele rather than one client since taste is so subjective to the individual.

    The very good renderings posted here have one big omission in that there are no figures present; figures add life and all important scale to an otherwise dead scene.
    I have had a client object to the nudity of a very basic CAD mannequin that I put in a rendering. So probably best to go for conservative dress too.:)
     
  10. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Mike, that's curious about your client's reaction to the CAD mannequin. I always thought that architectural figures were a bit bland and impersonal, so I put faces on them, and have both nude and clothed figures. Their names are Jack and Diane, which I name right on the drawings. The nude figures are usually shown in the shower. Clothed, they wear sport shirts, shorts, and boat shoes.

    Eric
     
  11. surf
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    surf Junior Member

    Which modelling/rendering program?

    Rich, which modelling/rendering program do you use to get those excellent high-res images?
     
  12. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member


    Yes usually you are asked if you can make some specific design alterations. This one wanted clothes on the manequins! I think he had an over-active imagination.

    I just met a computer model renderer/artist he suggested buying Poser 7 ($250) for some decent figures .

    He sent me a few examples here's some Rhino 4 files (in mm) With the software you can apparently alter clothing, pose etc and then export it to CAD. Consider them public domain.
     

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  13. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    That's a good point. But I am not sure talent is the issue as much as training and the proper equipment. I think you are much more than half way there with completed CAD drawings. I wonder if Rich from Urban Voyage or Alik have any comnment on the learning curve and the expense of the equipment.
     
  14. costa
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    costa Junior Member

    JONATHANCOLE i have seen only this moment this theme and i am the other of the first render You are showing in Your first post, i have to say that it is not a final render, its not detailed without final materials sceen lights and so on. Its a first render for showing the project.
    If You will have questions or some point for discussion You can find me writing me on design613@yandex.ru
     

  15. costa
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    costa Junior Member


    to say this is the same as i can say that as a transport designer i also had courses about shipbuilding hydrodinamic ergonomics ans so on... So can i say that i am a naval architect enough to do everything bymyself? ;) no
    same for naval architects its not enough "Art of Ship Design" in general.
    As between naval architects there are enough lot talanted persons that can make fantastic unique design of the boat same between artist and designers are enough specialists who can make a competent project. I think better when naval architect and designer are working in a group.
    And working already 6 years in this field i can say that a lot of clients are already not sutisfied by just a side view making by lines and words of a naval architect that it would be a cool great project. Sure naval architect can see it clear in his mind but not a client. rareits making him to want this boat. He want something unique, something from his dream as with a car as with a house .

    Absolutely agree in everything with SC1
     
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