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STORM SURVIVAL (tips & techniques)

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by masalai, Feb 11, 2008.

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Joined: Oct 2007
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Location: cruising, Australia

masalai masalai

Fanie must be asleap, so here it is

Try to be helpful...
Remember that there are at least two sides for every story...

masalai, Feb 11, 2008

#1

Joined: Jan 2007
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Location: FL, USA

charmc Senior Member

Uhhhhhh, here what is???

Best,

Charlie

charmc, Feb 11, 2008

#2

Joined: Oct 2007
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Location: cruising, Australia

masalai masalai

Fanies thread was "pirated" & he suggested a thread as above - he is asleep? and I am bored so paste your survival tips & stories here....

Try to be helpful...
Remember that there are at least two sides for every story...

masalai, Feb 11, 2008

#3

Joined: Jul 2007
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

LOL!! You're funny Masalai. I liked the big promo you did in my thread Now we just have to wait till someone has something to say lol

Richard Atkin, Feb 11, 2008

#4

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Location: cruising, Australia

masalai masalai

Sorry Richard -another dyslectic "wrong thread???"

I was viewing this site when you "beeped" me with your post http://www.thesailingchannel.tv/pardey/storm_tactics/index.htm

Try to be helpful...
Remember that there are at least two sides for every story...

masalai, Feb 11, 2008

#5

Joined: Oct 2007
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Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

Fanie must be asleap, so here it is
Click to expand...

What is *** leap?

Nah...

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#6

Joined: Oct 2007
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Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

OldYachtie:-

"Now, it has been demonstrated that heaving to is the best way to deal with storm conditions."
In all candor, "J" I not only don't agree with you, but doubt that you have ever experienced any serious storms at sea in small craft.
In really serious weather, even boats which can heave to, which is not all boats, and perhaps not the majority, would not dare to turn into the waves, and would be unable to hold any canvas up.
The only controversy among experienced multi-hull sailors is whether it is better to lie bows on to a large parachute, or to run with a drogue, in the worst weather. I'm in the 'run with drogue' camp, because I have experienced huge breaking waves and would not have tried to turn towards them for any money. I call myself 'OldYachtie' for a reason, you know.
Click to expand...

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#7

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Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

OldYachtie:-

My experiences are in monohulls. I am working on building a multihull, and have been doing much reading about multi-hull storm management.
In September-October of 1971, I was sailing a monohull fin keel sloop, an Erickson 35, from Hawaii to Seattle. I was caught in huge waves and was surfing with the mainsail up. We couldn't get the mainsail down, which was the beginning of my interest in sails which cannot jam under any point of sail in any weather when you try to take them down. You had to turn to windward in that boat to take the mainsail down, as is true of many marconi rigged boats. The waves were huge, but breaking only at the tops of the waves.
I had to steer for about 36 hours, as my wife just wasn't strong enough to fight the tiller. We didn't dare turn into those huge, partially-breaking waves, because the likelihood of being turned over was very obvious if had tried to do so.
In contrast, in my next boat, a moderately long keeled boat with a junk rig designed by Blondie Hasler, (Batwing,) I never had any trouble reefing or furling sails, in any amount of wind, on any point of sail. It sailed better to windward than its detractors imagined, but was hardly sparkling to windward, as it tacked through 100 to 110 degrees. This sail was flat, with no camber. Since then, the cambered junk sail has been invented, and junk rigged boats will now tack with any other standard cruising boat.
I remember one huge storm in 1978, between Fiji and New Zealand, in which I was awakened and told by my wife that she had just been standing on the side of the doghouse. We often sat sideways, legs up on the seat, athwartship at the dinette, and that meant that the boat had heeled so sharply that it must have approached being knocked down. We turned and ran under bare poles, until the storm blew out. We weren't going fast enough for running without a drogue to be dangerous-we were doing about 4 knots.
In such a cirumstance, a multihull would be in danger of surfing down waves so fast that it could bury its bows and pitchpole. If you are sailing really fast while running bare poles, therefore, drogues would be appropriate. I like the look of the Galerider or the new Fiorentino Shark drogue. If money is in short supply, either could be imitated by the home seamstress. This is the tactic recommended by Gregor Tarjan for catamarans.
Eric Hiscock, the grandfather of today's cruising community, had a low opinion of heaving to as a storm tactic. In his opinion, modern boats (modern in over 50 years ago!) didn't have long enough keels to heave to reliably. The only current advocates of heaving to are the Pardey's, who have a boat that Eric Hiscock, now passed away of old age, would have regarded as old fashioned. Hiscock recommended running, with long bights of line as drogues, if necessary, as the preferred tactic for dealing with dangerous storms.
My new boat will have an aerodynamic version of the junk rig, with the battens forming a wing shaped sleeve that will conceal the masts, and hinges in rigid battens to provide camber. Similar rigs have been used already, such as the Swing-Wing, and the Gallant rig. My rig will, in effect, be a cross between the two.
See: http://www.svaphrodite.bostekanesthesia.com/ and
http://www.themultihull.com/wharram2/bf9.htm
Click to expand...

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#8

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Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

Fanie:-

I cannot speak from a sailing point of view, but it can be really dangerous skidding down a wave as OldYachtie pointed out a cat may do. If you get it wrong the keel bites into the water and wants to veer to one side. Even the powerboat does this. I intend to make me one of those sea anchors with the multiple funnels on them... sorry the name evades me now... What I like about it is you can let out as many funnels as you like to change the amount of drag you set as required by the situation. The single sea anchor is set, you have to live with the amount of drag it has.

Worst water I was on was popping knobs everywhere and no aparent sequence... didn't know where the next was going to come from, bad. Got my grey beard there
Click to expand...

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#9

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Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

OldYachtie:-

'I intend to make me one of those sea anchors with the multiple funnels on them... sorry the name evades me now... What I like about it is you can let out as many funnels as you like to change the amount of drag you set as required by the situation.'

Hi, Fannie-I couldn't talk my wife into making one of those. There are lots of man hours in those things. They published the plans for making one in the magazine "Multihulls." ( http://www.multihullsmag.com/ )

See: http://www.sailrite.com/drogue-bag-captain-navy-135

I never heard of putting out different amounts of cones depending on the amount of drag you want, though. I don't think that was a part of the designer's thinking. You put the part with the funnels at the end of a whole lot of nylon line, so adding to it would take even more, and they have in mind some 600' or so of line to begin with. See http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/
Click to expand...

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#10

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,604
Likes: 177, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2484
Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

JCD:-

It appears that Mr J will have to put all of these "absolute" and linear thoughts to rest. Firstly, and the whole sailing community from mono to multi has already agreed, that the Pardy'd are the most experienced, knowlegeable and renowned cruisers of all time with over 200000 miles under the keel. By the way, they also use drougue and anchor at times. Hiscock's circumnavigated twice and saw 1 storm. See these videos so that you can see the conditions and comfort on board:

http://www.thesailingchannel.tv/pard...tics/index.htm

Here is some more research that unequivocally argues that only the Pardy's have a high opinion of heaving to and must therefore suck the big one because Hiscock had a low opinion of it. See these:

"Best compromise in under 50 knots",
http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/article/heaving-to

"Heaving to off wind",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaving_to

"Effective in all but 1 storm situtation",
http://books.google.com/books?id=tjK...eirClRQ8Y8dTDI

"If conditions got worse, we would have hove to"
http://www.boat-dealers.us/article/H...rereaching.php

Oh my GOD! How could Hiscock have been so correct to have such a low opinion of heaving to? The only vessel to make it out of this whole crap in one piece "HOVE TO".

http://www.mahina.com/leg9.html

I got tired of searching after that. Richard, I'm sorry and I would never hijack a thread, but misinformation that can lead to a tragedy offshore must be engaged head-on.

This reminds me of the old man and the sea...he wanted the whole fish so bad that he refused to cut a steak out of it and let the sharks eat it instead.
Click to expand...

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#11

Joined: Oct 2007
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Likes: 177, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2484
Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

Fanie Fanie

Only a few previously mentioned comments on survival in a storm. If I missed your's, I apologise it is not intentional.

If you can add to the topic of surviving in bad weather conditions, please submit to this thread. You could save lives and vessels.

I am a Boer, not an Afrikaner
Water ! Just gimme water !

Fanie, Feb 12, 2008

#12

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Location: cruising, Australia

masalai masalai

Fanie, I am told it is a "NZ" trick when they miss the ewe and get a weather instead

Try to be helpful...
Remember that there are at least two sides for every story...

masalai, Feb 12, 2008

#13

Joined: Mar 2002
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Location: British Columbia

Brent Swain Member

Friends ran the NZ Queens birthday storm with a galerider. The line kept going slack in the troughs and threatening to foul the skeg , until they shortened it down to 80 ft. Then it worked well.
Great to not have to carry all that line they recommend.
I made mine out of old car seatbelts. Far less work than the series drogue.
Brent

Brent Swain, Feb 14, 2008

#14
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Location: Cornwall, England

safewalrus Ancient Marriner

Old cars might have been better - my advice is be somewhere else!! (Weather forecasts have their uses!)

safewalrus, Feb 15, 2008

#15

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