Hermann Görings Motor Yacht "CARIN II" rotting away in the Red Sea

If I was just looking at her as an old boat I would have to agree with you, but the opening line from post #1 has Hermann Gorring as the first two words. She is not being presented as a boat but as a Nazi boat.
I could probably support saving the timber, but you need to consider how much teak and everything else went to the bottom before the Nazis were bombed into defeat.

 

At least insofar as making a point, a few hundred thousand are a lot of people.

 

That Allied teak must be mad as hell. At least we are still around to avenge it.
Are you saying that because the initial poster used Goering's name first, you recommend dismantling the boat?

 

We are still around but countless millions are not. God knows how many millions died from strategies planned on board.
I am not recommending dismantling the boat or having anything to do with the boat, merely saying that I could probably support it if that was what most people felt should be done.
I am saying that the initial poster opened his post highlighting a Nazi boat.

 

Millions have died, it's true. My only point was that it is the importance we give to things, whether ones race/creed or who once owned a boat, that makes us become emotional and become driven by other's ideas.
A boat is a boat. To attach more meaning to it requires other's knowledge to determine your path.
Isn't that what led Hitler to despise Jews? If he had never heard that Jews were inferior, he might never have done them harm. and had you chanced upon Goering's boat and not known of our culture's hatred of Goering, maybe that boat would not be threatening.

 

The boat is not threatening but its past owner was and no matter how we look at it, his Nazism will always be highlighted whenever the boat is mentioned, as is happening in this thread.
All links that throw light on Nazism need to be removed and not encouraged. Our love of boats should not supersede our love for our fellow humans, especially those who made the supreme sacrifice for us all.

 

NO! Forget and you are doomed to repeat, these things need to see the harsh light of day and scrutiny.

Again, its a boat, built by skilled people not that different to shippys everywhere, respect their work, their efforts, their lives. Its not an either or choice as you present it... love the craft hate man kind is childishly simplistic. Like I said before find a constructive purpose for it.... move in a positive direction now or again risk traveling the same paths we have tragically travelled in the past.

Hating an object is irrational and misdirected.

Last word from me.

CYA.

 

Obviously this subject brings emotionalism close to the surface for many people, myself included. A few pragmatists have made some rather practical observations yet I stand by my first post.

There is a standard rule of civilized discourse that states that one may attack the message but not the messenger. In that spirit I would invite Lazeyjack to closely examine some of his statements and reflect upon whether or not he would really like to be placed in the situation of defending his position from a close and rational analysis.

"that ******* is as bad as Hitler,"
"Hitler did not do as much harm as your guys are doing you , "

Would the rest of you in Europe or Australia really rather live in an alternative universe where we had not put forth the blood and treasure to thwart the Axis's plan for your homelands? What would your lives in Europe be like if the Soviets had been unchecked in the post WW2 era?

I am an American, a proud American, a member of a flawed but fundementally good place. I will not stand by quietly and let offensive slurs of such a despicable nature be uttered in my presence, either virtual or real, unchallenged.

 

Back in the 50's, when I was young, the guys from the war era would only say, when we mentioned Germans, "You either have them at your feet or at your throat". Life has moved on and having worked and lived in Germany and worked in other places with Germans, I know that they are like the rest of us, good and bad. They were ordinary people led into evil by Hitlers Nazis.

Regarding Lazeyjacks statements that offend Tolly Wally and probably a lot of other Americans and non-Americans, I don't have any proof that they are correct but there are a lot of people in America and throughout the world who are very afraid that they could be. There is a lot of stuff that does not add up in this world, not just in the US.

I have worked alongside Americans for most of my life and their desires are the same as mine, and I and everyone else appreciate the blood and sweat that they provided to beat back the Axis's plans. The treasure was a loan and has been totally repaid in the last few years.

Regarding the Soviet threat to Europe after the war, Churchill wanted to push north from Italy, after the allies took control of that area, and split the German Army, thereby stopping the Russian advance and annexing of the Eastern European countries. The American President would not support him and insisted that all the effort had to come from the Western front. There is a firmly held view that there was already a deal between America and Russia to control Europe between them. Given Europes history that would have made sense.

The big question that the world faces today is, who controls Russia and America?

 

And I thought wanton destruction was the province of "illiterate natives" who had no idea of how to effectively use something - I have seen that all too often in my limited travels/travails...

 

A lot of things come down to symbolism, and symols invoke reactions - thats why people have them! Some good, some bad. If bad they must be destroyed for the good of all (if they affect all?!) and when something becomes a symbol that too must go the same way, no matter what it was before!! That boat has become a symbol.................................................oh what boat is that?


In another vein I see from quotes that 'lazybrain' is still being vitrolic to all and thoughtlessly (?) stirring up the dung as is his wont - luckily he is and has been for some time on my "ignore list" so I don't have to read his insulting ramblings - a well reccomended recourse for anyone else so offended

 

Quite right. 90 foot of Burmese Teak - a dwindling resource fast being destroyed by those ******* generals in "Myanmar". Takes a teak tree 120 years to mature.

Copper sheathed? Try 20cm of GRP. Original weight was 70 tons, now 77. Has mahogany bulkheads/fittings inside.

 

Burning Books and Boats

What rot! So you'd destroy all Mercedes-Benz? Rip up the autobahns? Demolish the Brandenburg gate? Ban the playing of Wagner? I-T-S J-U-S-T A B-O-A-T. Albeit a very well-built boat. Out of a now endangered and scarce resource - Burmese Teak (nothing better). Fattie had her for just 8 years out of her 71.

 

Burning Books and Boats and Benz

"Knackered"? Define "knackered". If you mean she's tired and neglected...well yes. But I 'd wager that double diagonal Burmese Teak and oak under the 2 inches of fibreglass is doing quite nicely. Maybe the fastenings aren't as healthy. She also had two Benz diesels fitted in 1983 which haven't been run in awhile but I'm told they were "put away nicely" - whatever that means.

Oh wait...the Nazis drove Benz. Yeah sink the ******* thing - along with the rest of Germany. The whole country is tainted by its past.

 

Does this means I must get rid of my Audi Damn nice car to waste, even thought it burns diesel.....sorry Rudolph..