Help with outboard bracket design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by savagescout, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Savagescout,

    Wonderfull decision. All the power to 'ya. Great idea. Way easier, way less money, way better.

    All the best, good luck, post pics of your progress and remember: One hour of disassembly is worth ten hours of reassembly!

    -Tom
     
  2. savagescout
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: australia

    savagescout Junior Member

    Hi EgliVincent, I would be interested to hear what sort of windows you would recommend in the cuddy section of the hull... Ie. more modern styling....

    Cheers
     
  3. savagescout
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    savagescout Junior Member

    P.S thanks to all for advice and support.
     
  4. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    Hi EgliVincent, I would be interested to see ya bike!
     
  5. EgliVincent
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Camas, WA

    EgliVincent Junior Member

    Hi Savage Scout,
    Looking at your photoshop work, it looks as though you're trying to make it look a bit more modern. To me that means getting rid of that hard angled windshield first. Maybe some glass with radius transitions from the front to the side would give it a more modern look. Check out 'water bonnet' and 'taylor-made' glass online, they a big pdf catalog of all their shapes as well as frames etc.. From there you could rework the top and probably save the cuddy glass for last once the other work is complete and the aesthetic comes together. I like the look of the ovals you had cut in. I just finished a 22' aluminum fishing boat build where I tried to make things look more like a fiberglass boat. I'll try to post some pics of the radiused glass I used for that (water bonnet style 536 I think). Its hard to tell from the pics but most boats have a nice flat helm surfaces allowing old glass and frame to be removed and new glass installed (especially if you buy the appropriate framework).
     
  6. savagescout
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    savagescout Junior Member

    Thanks for the advice on the curved glass sections but now that i am going to do minimal mods i think i will stick with the straight glass look.

    I have drawn up my revised plans. Would love some input on thoughts.

    [​IMG]

    Essentially it utilising the existing hard top but enclosing the helm in full. I will form up the windshield frame out of glass with appropriate flanges so that i can insert frameless direct glazed glass to the enclosure.

    Existing cuddy section windows will be reglazed with tinted glass. Boat to be two toned hull. Most likely a white bottom and deck with off white/cream sides.

    I will also form up a bolt on engine bracket similar to the one in the picture and will keep it 1-2" from the edge of the transom..

    WOuld like to hear what people think of this look.
     
  7. seamac
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Ft. Myers Beach, FL

    seamac Junior Member

    savage,
    Being blunt, it's a waste of time/money and space in the barn. Don't spend a dime on this one. Post ideas of what you want in a boat ( not this project ) others can steer you there. Something about " teaching a pig to sing" comes to mind.
     
  8. EgliVincent
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Camas, WA

    EgliVincent Junior Member

    Looks good, flat glass will allow you to have it cut and installed at nearly any local glass shop. One idea as far as looks, you could kind of make it look like a Down East sort of boat. Here's a link. http://www.archdavisdesigns.com/davis_jiffyv22.html . Classic lobster trawler-ish sort of look might fit with that style of boat if you liked. Another note, make sure you have a good solid hull, stringers, transom etc. I think putting a little elbow grease could yield you a nice boat as long as the foundation is solid!
     
  9. savagescout
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    savagescout Junior Member

    Thanks for the advice EgliVincent but dont quite agree with the sentiments of Seamac but each to their own i guess.

    I am completely redoing the hull so will have a new transom, stringers, foam filled etc so the boat should be rock solid.

    Cheers,

    Nick
     
  10. EgliVincent
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Camas, WA

    EgliVincent Junior Member

    We all are familiar with that saying about opinions.....and how evyone has one. Thats fine they're just that.
    Everyone has different situations, some have bags of money and no time, other need to pinch and do things themelves. I know for me, I've always built a bond with things I've created myself. There are two advantages to sweat equity, one you build an emotional bond with what you're creating, and two you'll know that boat inside and out and if something goes amiss at sea you can probably identify the problem immediately.
    I'm in a strange position right know, I'm pondering buying a new powercat off the shelf or building a new one myself. The price difference will be negligable but I know if I build it I will get what i want. Fortunately I have build a few boats so I have the core skillset, but my brain says buy a boat and my heart says build your dreamboat.
     
  11. savagescout
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: australia

    savagescout Junior Member

    Guys, as per my original question on outboard bracket/pod design... If i am building a full width bracket/pod, should i install it as a continuation of the bottom of the hull or should i mount it like a stepped pod sitting approximately 3-4" above the keel line? I am interested from a performance point of view and plan for the pod to be approximately 2.5 feet long.

    CHeers,

    Nick
     
  12. Commuter Boats
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    Commuter Boats Commuter Boats

    Both plans have potential pitfalls, the pod that doesn't conform to the bottom can induce porpoising ( longitudinal instability at speed), the one that conforms to the bottom can induce a bow down attitude while underway, both of them can provide too much buoyancy aft and make bilge water run forward at rest.
    You could cover your *** and build a bracket that is 3 inches above the keel in such a way that if porpoising became a problem that 3 inches could be filled in and the engines could be lower appropriately. It could be further designed so that the center compartment could flood at rest to alleviate the situation that generated too much buoyancy......
    I've done more than a dozen pods, and I had trouble with porpoising on one of them and the problem was rectified as described above. With the bugs worked out all of the pods have proven beneficial to the vessel.
    Gerald
     
  13. EgliVincent
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Camas, WA

    EgliVincent Junior Member

    Good advice commuter boats. In addition I would add a couple of other thougths. With an armstong bracket mounted above the keel line you will usually notice an effect when putting the boat in reverse. Rather than the majority of the reverse thrust going underneath the boat and propelling it in reverse, a good amount will often hit the back of the transom and your reverse won't be quite as efficient. I think in regards to your boat you wouldn't need the additional buyoancy of having a custom bracket made that matched the bottom of the boat. If your boat was a stern drive it was designed to hold more weight at the transom than what a new outboard would be even hung out a ways. If you were a little heavy in the rear then you could move up your fuel tank and use it to fine tune the hull to eliminate porpoising etc.. I'd just buy an inexpensive ready-made bracket and be off to the races, I don't think there are a lot of big variables to consider in your situation. If you want a custom bracket check out conradyachts.com they design very nice ones.
     
  14. savagescout
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: australia

    savagescout Junior Member

    Thanks guys,

    Today i spoke with John Savage (from family who built and designed this boat). His advice was to do an extension of the hull. I can't argue with the guy who designed and built these boats. Going to get stuck into the project shortly!

    Will keep all updated.
     

  15. EgliVincent
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Camas, WA

    EgliVincent Junior Member

    Just one small piece of advice. If you go this route, create a bracket that bolts to the transom and has a clean break from the bracket and the transom of the boat. If you try to glass this thing in and have no seam line from bracket to boat on the bottom side it will surely stress fracture and you'll have some issues at that junction point. One question, did the designer give any specifics to support that recommendation. Many times boat builders think in terms of 'If I were building a new hull plug' how might I do it. There are many theories supporting both styles of outboard bracket, and many might support with evidence thhoughts that the reverse is true. I think I mentioned it before,but I just finished a boat that had a full bracket that matched the bottom of the boat. The thing is it was engineered that way. I had a very narrow bottom width trying to get a narrow beam to length ratio and needed the additional buoyancy. If your boat was a stern drive previously, the boat was designed to carry 150-200lbs more weight at the stern than like horsepower of an outboard. Sitting that weight out a couple feet would probably just about compensate for that additional weight hopefully keeping the longitudinal COG about the same. It is possible to creat a bow heavy boat if you have too much buyoancy aft. I don't think in your case there is anything to worry about though. Best of luck on your project, I look forward to seeing it when its done.
     
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