help please with sailing parameters

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by kim s, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. kim s
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: essex, uk

    kim s Junior Member

    I am asking for help as to what to expect from my old Tri

    I have rebuilt a Lively 28 from Hartly design.

    I know she is an old plodder so PLEASE I am not expecting 15 knotts
    I have done some mileage in her.about 200-300 miles with a few heart stopping moments and some incredible ear splitting grin factor 10
    my trouble is, as I am new to this multihull sailing after 30 years in cruisers and many thousand miles, I am still wary of the no lead mine keeping her upright and turning it over, hence I am wondering if I am a bit of a wimp.

    what sort of apparent wind speed should I be looking at putting the first reef in?.
    what boat speed should I be looking at average for this old style boat

    I get a real twitch on at over 20knots apparent when beating into it,and tend to reduce to working jib. which means I slow down and feel underpower at the front end and the boat gets a soggy feeling. tried the other way, reef in and keep larger headsail, boat pays off to leeward and a struggle keep into the wind.
    yes I have LARS which wont help this.
    but the feeling of straining and creaking, the arms flexing slightly all make me pucker up....hehe .....and reduce sail.
    I am warey of keeping it all up at wind speeds over this but maybe its best untill I feel really comfortable with her
    any info would be greatly appreciated

    Kim
     
  2. DarthCluin
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Florida

    DarthCluin Senior Member

    According to Clark Craft's website, the Lively 28 will do 9 miles per hour in an 18 mile per hour wind, and 14.4 miles per hour in a 34 mile per hour wind. I figure these are numbers for a new boat, and no weight is given. Hartley's website only lists length overall, main hull beam, and draft. The Lively 28 is quite capacious for it's length, and the price is paid for that room by sacrificing some speed.
    It will be much faster than a monohull of the same length, but most likely about the same as the cruising Pivers.
     
  3. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    I'd say convert the larger jib to a furler so you can fine tune things. You'll be more confident pushing the envelope if you know you can throttle down without changing jibs. Practice depowering your main by flattening, twist etc... so you can put off reefing, and open up the slot. The old saying is reef when you first think of it.

    We like to wind the Nicol up now and then but did the groundwork so we only have to worry about blowing out old sails. Of course we keep a hand on the sheets. While we don't flex I've noticed the flat Piver beams tend to, Paddy would be the one to ask about those. I always heard the Hartleys were less stable than the Pivers so check your history and work out some of your numbers like righting moment so you can get an idea of when to ease off.
     
  4. kim s
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: essex, uk

    kim s Junior Member

    I had forgoten that was on the web site:eek:

    on reading that, i am supposing the wind speed is true not apparent.

    Cavalier----- I am go to have to read up about RM and how to calculate. I am no designer or engineer. just an ex yachting instructor and skipper. I just made sure it held together.now an electrician. never really understood why it didnt roll over and die. that was just due to a large weight swinging under her.

    I wont ask for you to explain as I know the info is out there.
    the only thing I might ask is if there is a web site with a simple explanation and maybe a numpty guide. ie put this number here, the length there divide by grandmothers age etc

    oh--- I have heard that the Lively was a tad unstable so they increased the beam from 17ft to 18ft 6"

    mine is wider as I had to replace the arms so made them to the new size.

    Kim
     
  5. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Hello Kim, sounds like useful beam. There is at least one righting moment thread on the site with equations and links to Shuttleworth's site.
    I was going to post the Wharram formula but decided to post the all out numpty solution. Your tri is about the right size and configuration to figure on achieving maximum stability at 25-30 degrees of heel. Install a inexpensive clinometer to measure the angle of heel and use it as a tachometer. For low stress cruising redline at 10 degrees of heel, for pushing things go up to 15 degrees or 1/2 maximum. This allows a large safety factor- if you see 20 your getting too close to the edge.
     
  6. kim s
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: essex, uk

    kim s Junior Member

    Cavalier

    now I do feel a bit daft that i didnt think of that. I thought clinometer where for monos:eek::eek::eek:.

    but I love the simplicity. thanks

    I have to say I doubt that I have had more than 5-8 degs it means the beer falls over.;);) but also as she has all 3 hulls in the water she is stiff. I would like to raise them up but thats next years project.

    cheers for the link and web page reading

    Kim
     

  7. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Cheers Kim, sounds like the tippy cups with spill proof lids are a ways off :) Most tris of that vintage can get close to 20 knots true before they reef but spilling a beer is a rather drastic gauge and takes the comfort out of the comfort zone ;)
     
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