Help/Opinions with choosing Design/Designs

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by DavidAD, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. DavidAD
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 8
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    Location: Guatemala

    DavidAD Junior Member

    Hi, I would like a few opinions or suggestions on a few designs I've been looking at homebuilding. I know, I've taken into account homebuilding over buying used, but if it's necessary I don't mind at all any arguments over that matter. I'm asking because I am in no way a certified naval architect, experienced sailor, or an avid boat builder and I would like to ask their respective opinions as there are many of them on these forums. I'm just a amateur boat builder and sailor who already has in the works an 8ft D5 dinghy to learn on and have already chosen a weekend's/Day sailor. And no this is not a duplicate thread either, I just want opinions on designs and I'm not taking into account the who story/background.

    The design list

    1. Lerouge Pulsar 26
    2. Shuttleworth Shuttle 28
    3. Lerouge Vik 91
    4. Shuttleworth Shuttle 31 (Both versions a bridgedeck/Open deck
    5. Lerouge Pulsar 33
    6. Lerouge Pulsar 36

    Yes, sadly I'm quite indecisive and can't afford to change plans later on. Resale value would be a big part, building cost the other. All of them built Strip/CM, and it would be mostly Caribbean/South Pacific sailing. I'm in the poor range so 15-20K is my absolute max for building the hulls including interior finish with wiring, plumbing and most importantly the sails (rigging and hardware is apart). I would get a quote but I've never had a response from the lofts. Weird but what can I do, everything else I've already managed to sum up the costs, though complete figures would be absolutely welcomed. It's a big size range between designs but I like to keep options somewhat open while I can. I've also already talked with their respective designers but would like a more neutral opinion.

    Another question is between the 2 Shuttleworths and the 2 larger Lerouges tris that grab my attention more, but are the 3 ft difference between both designs of the same designer worth the jump? And taking that into consideration which design would most fit my needs? My needs are few to none, just a boat that can sail well and won't kill me, my likings (is that a word?) are far bigger but those can go to hell. I'm also open to other designs that are pitched.

    Thanks In advance!

    In order from the list and to save all of you time and energy.

    • Lerouge Pulsar 26

      Length: 26 '3 "
      Waterline: 26 '3 "
      Beam: 22 '4 "
      One trailer: 8 '4 "
      Daggerboard : 1 '5 "/ 6' 4"
      Weight: 2600lbs
      Loaded: 4200lbs
      Mast: 41 '4 "/ 30sqft
      Mainsail: 390sqft
      Jib: 180sqft
      Spinnaker: 700sqft
      Headroom: 5 '9 "
      .
    • Shuttleworth Shuttle 28

      Main 33 m2 355 sq. ft.
      Jib 14.3 m2 154 sq. ft.
      Mast 4 m2 43 sq. ft.
      Genoa 37.5 m2 403 sq. ft.
      LOA 8.5 m 28 ft
      BOA 6.33 m 20.8 ft
      LWL 8.35 m 27.4 ft
      Board and rudder up 0.396 m 1ft. 3 ins.
      Rudder down board up 0.73 m 2ft. 5 ins.
      Board down 1.93 m 6 ft. 4 ins.
      Headroom Max 1.87 m 6ft. 2 ins.
      Empty in sailing trim 2100 Kgs
      DWL drawn at full load. 2800 Kgs
      Max displacement 3100 Kgs
      .
    • Vik 91
      .
      Length: 29 '6 "
      Waterline: 29 '6 "
      Beam: 17'11 "
      Keels : 2'11 "
      Weight: 5500lbs
      Loaded: 8600lbs
      Mast: 38 '/ 45sqft
      Mainsail: 370sqft
      Jib: 230sqft
      Spinnaker: 700sqft
      Headroom: 5 '7 "/ 6' 3"
      .
    • Shuttleworth Shuttle 31

      [​IMG]
    • Lerouge Pulsar 33
      .
      Length: 32'10 "
      Waterline: 32'10 "
      Beam: 26'11 "
      Main hull: 9'10 "
      Keels: 3 '2 "
      Weight: 5900lbs
      Loaded: 9150lbs
      Mast: 47 '7 "/ 70sqft
      Mainsail: 520sqft
      Jib: 350sqft
      Spinnaker: 1070sqft
      Headroom : 6 '3 "
      .
    • Lerouge Pulsar 36

      Length: 36 '
      Waterline: 36 '
      Beam: 29 '2 "
      Unbolted: 9 '8 "
      Daggerboard : 2 '1 "/ 8' 2"
      Weight: 6200lbs
      Loaded: 9700lbs
      Mast: 52'10 "/ 80sqft
      Mainsail: 640sqft
      Jib: 390sqft
      Spinnaker: 1300sqft
      Headroom: 6 '3 "


    • Pulsar 26
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    • Vik 91
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    • Shuttleworth 28
      [​IMG]
    • Shuttleworth 31 without BD/ W BD
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    • Pulsar 33
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    • Pulsar 36
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

    That was longer than I expected :) :D :D
    And sorry for putting my burdens on you guys, just don't have enough experience nor does the internet give me enough atm. Books are a work in progress.

    DavidD.
     
  2. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    None of these boats fit your budget, not even the smaller ones.
    Why ? Because their shapes will require a batten mould which will suck up a good % of your start up plus from what I see they are all foam sandwich which is expensive.
    I would look at a Woods catamaran or perhaps the Crowther Buccaneer 28 Tri which has a thread of it's own on here. Even so you will be battling. I would look at getting a bargain in the USA secondhand market.
     
  3. jamez
    Joined: Feb 2007
    Posts: 492
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    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

    jamez Senior Member

    I did briefly consider the Pulsar 26 (among a whole bunch of others) when I was looking but ended up forgetting strip and foam designs in favour of ply/glass.

    The boats on your list, while all proven designs are complex and require big expensive rigs - where a lot of the money goes. To have any resale they would need to be finished to a very high standard and have all the extras, and even then there is no guarantee you would get your money back. I doubt you could build the platform and sails for the smallest of these for the figures you state (assuming US Dollars). I would be curious to see your costings (or rather what you costed) for the Pulsar 26.
     
  4. DavidAD
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 8
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    Location: Guatemala

    DavidAD Junior Member

    Redreuben in fact I have to disagree with you on using foam, these are all designs that have already been adapted to Strip planking, I like the woods catamarans in terms of cost vs usability and I know they fit my budget (The Sagitta/Gypsy).
    I look more into the Buccaneers and sea runners. I'm not going second hand because I'm pretty sure I'll end up spending the same on fitting a used boat to my standards/intentions. Apart from it would mean less experience when DIY maintenance comes around and less knowledge of the boat. I'm looking at long term factors as well. A used boat has considerable more upkeep than a new boat for the first few years, even if it's a DIY boat with DIY systems. Again this is my opinion and very much up for debate. :D :D

    I'll elaborate a little more. Plywood, marine grade and even normal grade plywood is outrageously expensive where I live so that's kinda out for a whole boat constructed out of that. Hardware I can make some of the less intensive stuff myself, I'll use synthetic rigging instead of regular wire rigging, all designs have wing masts I could build myself. Wood for hulls albeit low in comparison is basically free for me. Wiring, plumbing, sanding etc can be done WITH professional help very cheaply (think $8 a day cheap). Labour like mixing epoxy, moving stuff cutting ,etc also cheap, half the price $4. Sails can be made for 1/3 the price of a regular loft sans material.There's other stuff that hasn't come to my mind, have it written down somewhere. By the time I start construction a few self built dinghies from wood and a strip weekender/daysailor under my belt to start with. And yes I do live in a 3rd world country to simplify and clarify some things. The only thing that can't be 3rd worldified (let's make a me word) is epoxy/fiberglass and sails.

    This will not be a one man does all build, I know my limits and restrictions. But then again those where made to be broken with time..

    Jamez I calculated about $12 - 15k a ready to sail bare boat with basic stuff: head, wiring but no electronics(yeah I know but those change prices a lot), interior fitted. I just wanted several external opinions to see if I had done it right or wrong... Wrong I guess.
     
  5. jamez
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

    jamez Senior Member

    Completely acknowledge that material costs vary wildly around the world so its difficult to make a straight comparison. If good ply is expensive but a suitable solid timber is cheap then that will make a variance but you will still need epoxy and glass that costs $$.

    All I can offer is my own experience; my 25' non-folding glass over ply tri cost approx 40K NZ (around 28k US) to launch, with a new rig and second hand sails. I saved money by leaving out excess gizmos and transferring the auxiliary and safety gear from my previous boat. The fit out is basic but all the materials are best quality. its exactly what I need and can use and no more. If I was in the US or near it I would have bought an F24 Mk1 instead for around the same bucks and been perfectly happy with it.
     
  6. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    David, I'm the self acclaimed world expert on building stuff that works and performs okay - for the least expense. Jamez knows his stuff also. Kiwis are good at this because we're so far away from just about anywhere. But in your case you're going to have to lower your sights so that you get a tight group at 100 metres, not 1000. Meaning those large cruising designs listed are way beyond your calibre.
    For a design you need the Crowther Buccanner 24 or 28 and there is a Christchurch group here (check Outside the Box on this site) in New Zealand who have an updated design. Failing that get the Buccaneer stock versions.
    Since plywood is too expensive in Guatemala, you're going to have to find a lightweight local wood that doesn't bend all over the place when it is ripped down to 5-6mm - because you're going to be strip planking.
    Bulding a small chord wing mast out of the same light wood and epoxy, will also save you money. There are some designs posted here at boatdesign.net. Your tri is going to have to be a very bare bones thing to fit into your budget. Maybe you'd better think about oars for your motor and solar for your lighting - kind of like the boats competing in the race to Alaska happening right now.
     

  7. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 278
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 65
    Location: USA

    Jetboy Senior Member

    FWIW -

    A set of 3 sails for a boat this size will run you about $3500 in 6oz dacron from the chinese sail shops. That's about what I priced out for my trimaran at $2500 for a jib, main, and asym with a 27' main luff and 8' foot. I expect they will be a small amount more $ for the larger boats.

    I don't think you can build as cheap as you can buy a second hand boat. My trimaran in honeycomb core - cheaper than foam - will be around $15k building as cheaply as I can and using a full set of rigging from a donor boat.

    There was a dragonfly 26 in Seattle USA for $16,500. I don't think you can get even close to that boat building yourself. If it were smaller - I'd probably own it. It's just too big for my use.

    You could probably get this guy delivered for well under your budget and be better than what you could build for $20k. http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/48096

    There are also a number of Coursair F24's that are getting close to your price range.

    Don't build a boat to save money. I think everyone who's done it probably will tell you the same thing.

    Only build a boat because you enjoy building things.

    Good luck.
     
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