Help needed from designer/builder

Hi Guys and Girls of boatdesign.net.
I've long been a lurker, consuming all the knowledge that the site has to offer in relation to whatever has me interested or annoyed on a particular day.

Today I'm looking for someone that can help, a boat designer, builder or anyone with the relevant skill, knowledge and understanding to help me through my latest dilemma.

I have a 5.8m pacific dory build in progress (nearing completion) that I intend on using for inshore fishing. Sometime between the start of the build and now, regulations have either been changed or enforced and I now need to provide proof of the build/design in relation to I.S.O. standards, particularly, 12215-3, 12215-5, 12215-6.
The scantling spacing, number of frames and size of individual scantlings for me is the most difficult thing to work out.

The build process I can do as I'm a woodworker and have detailed build record and material certs.

I have the plans, and you may ask why not go to the designer, well he unfortunately has died in the interm. So here I am.

A lot of dreaming and effort has gone into getting the boat to this stage and I'm fighting an uphill battle against bureaucracy thats not designed for the individual. I'm not sure that getting this done will see me through the process but I want to try and exhaust every available opportunity. Doing this will not only get me on the salt but also create a path to follow for other builders in my situation.

I don't expect charity, I believe in an honest days pay for an honest days work so anyone that can help me will be paid accordingly.

I'm sure I've left out the majority of necessary information so please ask and I shall tell.

Is mise le meas,

Thomas

 

@Thomas F. , welcome to the forum. I'm sure you'll find the help you need here. I believe that I am one of the many who can help you in this forum. If you want us to talk in more detail about your needs, you can send me an email with the information you think is convenient.

 

Hello TANSL,

Thanks you for your reply I'll send you an email detailing the situation as it stands. Thanks again!

 

Are we talking recreational or commercial fishing?
If recreational you are dealing with some uninformed official. Furthermore, there is no requirement to register your boat as long as you don't want to take it to continental europe.

This is official info provided by the department of transport:

"The following categories are exempt from the obligation to register, but their owners may opt to do so:
• Ships under 15 net register tons burden, provided they are used only on the rivers, canals, lakes or coasts of Ireland, Great Britain, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man, or within the territorial waters off their coasts;
● Sea-fishing boats of less than 15 metres in length overall and required to be registered in the Register of Fishing Boats."

If commercial talk to a local licensed surveyor.

 

Hello Rumars, thanks for your reply.

It will hopefully be a commercial inshore fishing vessel once all the Is are dotted down the Ts are crossed.

I have been in contact with a surveyor since I first started making wooddust and the information he got from the department was as much of a surprise to him as it was new to me.

Since he has been in business, boats under 7m in length were left to the discretion of a chartered surveyor and surveyed using the under 15m Code of Practice.

My questioning him and his querying the department only came about as I had heard of an under 7m traditional built fishing boat being refused surveying as the builder could not provide a build standard and was therefore ineligible.

More frustrating was there was no build standards being provided that a person could work to. In my quest to find a solution I came across the I.S.O. (Ireland uses these via the N.S.A.I.) and had the surveyor submit these to the department in the hope that they would be accepted, which they did.

As it stands my little boat will be the first to go through this process so as well as having the build perfect the paperwork needs to be perfect too. Hence my reaching out to far surperior minds than my own!

 

Well, if it's a commercial build, you have no other chance but to comply with DoT requirements. That beeing said, you choosing ISO could be a problem depending on how exactly you are building. If it is a glued construction, meaning plywood epoxy or sheathed strip, ISO isn't a big hurdle. But, if it's a mechanically fastened traditional build, ISO is a very poor choice because 12215-5 (2019) specifically excludes traditional wood construction.

If it's glued, you ask DoT what documentation exactly they require from fiberglass and metal builders, and who is allowed to sign it. The last part is important because they might insist the documentation has to be signed by a licensed professional, and the definition of that varies from country to country.
Then you produce the required paperwork, if necessary with the required signature/stamp, and submit it to DoT. They will then forward the documents to the surveyor so he can certify the as buildt status conforms to the plans.

If the build uses traditional methods, what you do is find yourself the last published copy of the Lloyd's Register Rules wich includes carvel and lapstrake, that will be something from the 1960's. Then you go to DoT and say, this is the latest rule for traditional wood from a classification society you approve of, my plans follow this, you can check (attach the relevant tables from the rule to the appropriate part of the plan, they probably misplaced their copy by now).

I don't know how it works in Eire, but in some other countries you first get the plans approved, then start the build, not the other way around. It's also worth asking how they handle hull identification numbers (for the Builders Certificate), if they assign you one or if you need to get registered and then issue your own. That's important because it can make a difference between "home buildt, can't be sold for 5 years" and "professional buildt and CE marked".

Sorry I can't be of more help, but this is highly dependent on the individual jurisdiction. You need to speak to the relevant office, right up to Dublin if necessary. You ask nicely what pieces of paper you need to submit, to whom, and where you can pay the fee, there is no other way.

 

Thanks Rumars, you have been of great help.

Yes, how I'm going about it is convoluted due to circumstance.

I had asked about getting the plans greenlit before I started but was told it wouldn't be an issue, due to size and the way things were done at the time, which of course it is now.

The build method is epoxy glued wood/ply/epoxy, fibreglass encapsulation hence opting for the I.S.O.

You're suggestion about the relevant paperwork is invaluable and I'll follow that up this week.

I have no issue with doing what needs to be done, (I'm a bit of a stickler for rules) but my complete lack of experience in this has me moving half blind in the dark but slowly progressing to some resolution.

Thanks again and I'll be sure to update any progress for future individuals.

 

To the question on wooden build: the "DNV rules for workboats under 15 m" of ca 1985 (i'll find my copy soon...), was the base for the "Nordisk Båt Standard" (Nordic boat standard) of 1990. Both had a full section describing requirements for both traditional build and "ply technology", if you need referrence to something newer than the Lloyds. These standards were in reality good practical working "handbooks" for designers and builders.

My son-in-law in Cork was in contact with the local DoT office a couple of years ago, when adapting a small open boat for inshore fishing and guiding. The guy responsible then was creative in finding practical solutions. You can pm me directly if you want contact info. BTW, where in Eire are you?

 

Hello baeckmo,

Thanks for your reply, I'm only a newbie to the site so I can't pm at the moment, haven't earned enough kudos for that!

We're a great country for creative solutions but I'm afraid they're slowly becoming a thing of the past. In saying that it still would be great to talk to someone with experience.