Help me find a boat: 26ft planing centerboard wood sailboat?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by griffinb, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 1,409
    Likes: 114, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 152
    Location: United States

    Skyak Senior Member

    Planing sailboat+antique design+wood construction+exactly 26ft+sits on a mooring without degradation or incident+family daysailer=null set

    If you want to outgun everyone in this classic race, a few grand and you can trailer sail the E-scow. Parking, is not insurmountable. Have you considered a share deal? You pay for the boat, it's yours yearly for the race, the rest of the season it's for the care and use of your crew. Or talk a friend into buying and you crew.
    If you want the effective family daysailer waiting on the mooring, get some fine modern plastic boat.
     
  2. griffinb
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 6, Points: 8
    Location: USA

    griffinb Junior Member

    If my search had an easy solution we wouldn't be on the 5th page of forum posts!
    I know I am looking for a unicorn.
    If there's really no vintage planing wood centerboarder between the length of a Raven (24'), and an E Scow (28'), (which both fit the bill, except for their lengths), then this search is over. I'll start a different thread if I ever decide to design one with a clean slate.
     
  3. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 765
    Likes: 318, Points: 63
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    You have two popular vintage designs no one can argue against. Scaling one or the other so you can keep her on a mooring is perfectly reasonable and should fit the spirit of tradition. Someone from the 1950s or earlier would have done the same thing. You would be adding no new technology, or no radical modern concepts, and I can't see that even the process of cutting down your boat to fit your needs wouldn't use machinery commonly available to the old time craftsmen.

    Take your dilemma to the race committee and have them approve your proposed solution. If you're afraid to give away the planing sailboat idea to other racers, you needn't worry. After the first series of races, there will soon be others joining you on the course anyhow.
     
  4. griffinb
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 6, Points: 8
    Location: USA

    griffinb Junior Member

    Thanks for the vote of confidence!
    I wouldn't be the only planing boat in the race, but I might be the only vintage (pre-1950) planing boat in the race.
    Several of the Spirit of Tradition designs plane off the wind in a decent breeze.
    I'm afraid I might try chopping the stern off an E Scow... By the time I'm scaling up a Raven, I'd rather just build a custom 26' spirit of tradition with a clean slate.
     
    Skyak and Will Gilmore like this.
  5. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,489
    Likes: 800, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 39
    Location: Germany

    Rumars Senior Member

    I suppose post #60 has escaped your attention. The bow is the better candidate.
     
  6. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 1,409
    Likes: 114, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 152
    Location: United States

    Skyak Senior Member

    I would agree with him that the stern is easier to make collapsible. The larger thicker cross-section makes the attachment easier. The relative angles between the forestay and backstay show that the bow has much higher bending strain plus it has impact from being driven into waves at 20knots. You could do running backstays at the bobbed corners -no such alternative for the forestay. The flat sides mean you could leave them attached on beefy hinges.

    I even thought of a way to keep the boat upright on the mooring with waterbags on a beam you strap across the hull before you leave it.
     
  7. Steve Clark
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 221
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 163
    Location: Narragansett Bay RI

    Steve Clark Charged Particle

    The ploy will be to have the stern of the EScow off for mooring, and on for racing. I believe there is enough EScow aft of the rudder posts and traveler to pull it off. If not, I built a catamaran which had the entire stern on a hinge so the underhung rudders could be tipped up. It requires a watertight bulkhead and some fairly aggressive hold down latches, but it was really simple and reliable.
    The E scow I sailed lived in the water on Cayuga Lake and didn’t blow over. The E Scow experts know that answer.
    SHC
     
  8. griffinb
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 6, Points: 8
    Location: USA

    griffinb Junior Member

    Glad to hear E-Scows are stable at mooring.

    Hinge-up stern sounds like the way to go.
     
  9. Howlandwoodworks
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 188
    Likes: 59, Points: 38
    Location: MO

    Howlandwoodworks Member

    Raven designer Roger McAleer
    I did a S# on the Raven S#=9.47. Holly smokes must be a real bucking bronco.
    All though I am new to this ratio so I could be all wrong.
    https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/s-calculator.65611/
    upload_2022-5-2_0-11-20.png
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
    Will Gilmore likes this.
  10. wet feet
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 932
    Likes: 206, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 124
    Location: East Anglia,England

    wet feet Senior Member

    Have you run the same calculations for a 505?
     
  11. Howlandwoodworks
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 188
    Likes: 59, Points: 38
    Location: MO

    Howlandwoodworks Member

    Well that broke the S# Calculator 12.92
    upload_2022-5-2_9-20-26.png
     
  12. wet feet
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 932
    Likes: 206, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 124
    Location: East Anglia,England

    wet feet Senior Member

    The numbers might change a bit if the crew weight was factored in.
     
  13. Howlandwoodworks
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 188
    Likes: 59, Points: 38
    Location: MO

    Howlandwoodworks Member

    I think you are right, the crew could make a difference.
    So I looked at some of the data on the Sailboat Data website. They didn't seem to factor in the crew on any displacement#, DLR#, SA/D# or the S# if they were listed.
    I am kind of vexed sometime as to what the parameters are for some the calculations like Sail Area, Displacement etc... in different scenarios .
    Smaller boats seem to have an advantage over larger ones in the S# but if I just compare similar boats to one another it seems to work out.
    None of the ratios are perfect but I just look at it as what is the best outcome/scenario for these calculations and or ratios as I comparing one boat to another or whatever it might be used for.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2022
  14. CT249
    Joined: May 2003
    Posts: 1,367
    Likes: 150, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 215
    Location: Sydney Australia

    CT249 Senior Member

    The calculators are normally set for big boats where crew weight doesn't vary enormously and is less of a factor, proportionately.

    In dinghies crew weight varies enormously. At one end an Aussie 12 Foot Skiff can have two big guys in a tiny boat, whereas a 17ft long International Canoe only has one person. When the crew weigh over 3 times as much as the fully rigged boat (as in Kiwi R Class and 12 Foot Skiffs) then their weight is incredibly important.

    The other problem with SA/D ratios etc is that in dinghies the righting moment varies enormously (some boats have one person hiking, some have three trapezing off wings) so some boats can use their sail area in a breeze and others can't.

    While the US Portsmouth yardstick has some bizarre numbers (mainly the international development classes, where it seems the PY hasn't been updated in half a century) in general it seems OK as a guide to comparative speed.
     
    Doug Halsey and Will Gilmore like this.

  15. griffinb
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 6, Points: 8
    Location: USA

    griffinb Junior Member

    Great point about the righting moment of the crew. Beam of the boat. Crew on the rail vs hiking with straps vs trapeze, vs trapeze on wings makes a huge difference where the crew's weight is. The other variable is the hull shape. The center of buoyancy doesn't shift off the centerline much for a narrow hull, but it shifts significantly for a wide hull, especially a "less-round" hull (hard-chine or scow shape).

    So what should be the key ratio for dinghies? Not SA/D. Sail-Area / Righting-Moment? Or would that be more an indicator of target wind-range than overall performance? I would love to see data for "lowest windspeed at which a boat can start to plane", but I don't think it's available?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.