Help me find a boat: 26ft planing centerboard wood sailboat?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by griffinb, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    I would be surprised if making a change to the stern would make very much difference to a centreboarder.For one thing,the sections are so shallow that they don't contribute much lateral resistance.For another,you can make a minor adjustment by lifting or lowering the centreboard a touch.The rudder ought not to be making much of a contribution to lateral resistance and if it is,the tiller load will be obvious.A less obvious concern is how the members of another class will react to having a part of their heritage butchered......
     
  2. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    I understand designers usually only count 1/3 or 1/2 of the rudder area for CLR calculations.
    I understand what you actually feel in the tiller is either weather-helm, or lee-helm. If you start asking the rudder to contribute more to CLR, that means pressure on the lee side of the rudder, which would be felt as additional weather-helm, correct?

    The stern section I'm proposing chopping contributes lateral resistance, weight, flotation, wetted surface, etc. Some of those factors change with heel angle. I'm just trying to anticipate how bad it would be...

    Butchering a classic is not enticing to me either. If you know of a planing, wood, centerboarder, 26' loa, designed pre-1975 (pre-1950 would be ideal), please let me know!
     
  3. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    In my world,weather helm is a condition that requires the rudder to operate at an angle so that the boat travels in a straight line.Tiller loading is something different and practically any transom hung rudder will apply a modest force to the tiller by virtue of having very little area ahead of the pivot axis.

    If we go back to the scow in post #40 and look at the stern sections;first of all there is very little immersion and second there is very little shaping that would resist lateral forces.On a different note,how would a rudder gantry be regarded by the race organisers?It might be a workround or it might alert them to the need to close a loophole if you made enquiries.........
     
  4. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    :) that's the way to do it.

    What I was trying to say about CLR and CE is that, shortening the boat by the stern would have the effect of moving everything aft relative to the hull. The center of flotation moves relative to the driving force and the CE and CLR shouldn't change too much relative to each other, but you can't move crew as far aft for countering the driving force. The rudder and the cb are both closer to the transom while remaining the same distance from the bow.

    When planing, it is the stern that makes contact with the water. The bow lifts over the bow wake, which moves aft. For a sailboat, the driving force is trying to sink the bow while heel reduces the planing surface. It will be interesting to see what shortening the hull will do.
     
  5. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    I still don't believe it will make a lot of difference because most planing sailboats with centreboards will have the board raised somewhat when planing.I am aware of skiffs with long bowsprits and daggerboards that don't do so.Upwind with full board,digging the bow in isn't usually a big problem and in a scow with abundant buoyancy,I can't really visualise it happening to any great extent. I also don't believe that lift from the stern makes a whole lot of difference to trim or if it .did,I would expect it to depress the bow and that is the opposite of what I have usually experienced.Lift from the dynamic forces at the bow certainly would make a difference and in any event the crew can shuffle along the decks to optimise the trim.All of which is rather academic if a suitable hull doesn't materialise.
     
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  6. Steve Clark
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    Steve Clark Charged Particle

    This is such a special circumstance! I don't think there is an existing answer.
    The most exciting option might be to build a stretched Raven.
    I knew the Goodwin family when I was growing up in Marion Mass, and the Raven was one of Cape Cod Shipbuilding's products which fascinated me.
    I believe Cape Cod Shipbuilding still has the molds, and might be willing to permit their use for a special project
    I would look at some form of hybrid build which would allow you to build a "wooden boat" inside a fiberglass female mold. For example-A very light GRP skin could be laminated and strip planks bonded to the inside and then covered with another more glass. The Spirit of Tradition has permitted fairly generous use of carbon fiber ( Outlier comes to mind)....so it might be possible to do something pretty radical still be a wood boat. After the part is released you could change the stem and stern profiles to get your desired 26' LOA. Whether this would be enough in the Spirit of Tradition is a political question, particularly if you went further off the reservation with the sail plan and foils. There was a crew on the west coast that was sailing a Raven with 2 or 3 trapezes....
    Or maybe you could put a very light minimum accommodations to comply with PHRF. You could probably build the hull light enough to maintain the a light ship displacement of under 2000 lbs. It could be a fascinating project....
    SHC
     
  7. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    If you cut 2 and a half feet off a vintage design is it still even a qualifying vintage design?
    While wooden sailboats are allowed to rot around the world, it is still frowned upon to hack one up that is in working order. No disrespect but I think you need to think a bit more about wooden boat culture (less about winning, more about history and craft) to have a positive experience.

    What was the motivation for being 26'? A limited dock space? What is the point of that for a boat that barely floats upright unattended?

    If you are like me you wonder "was there ever a D scow?".
     
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  8. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    upload_2022-4-19_18-2-16.png
    Foiling sailboat on Mendota - circa 1950s - National Class E Scow Association https://e-scow.org/content.aspx?page_id=5&club_id=180842&item_id=23884
    Foiling sailboat on Mendota - circa 1950s
    Published on 10/4/2013
     
  9. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    Rudder gantries aren't specifically addressed in the rules, but they would stand out in a classic race...
     
  10. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    I can tell you're jumping through a lot of the same mental hoops that I have, to get to this point!
    I'm just trying to avoid building a new custom wooden boat... If I end up doing that, then I will start with a clean slate, instead of a Raven mold. Unless I could convince race organizers that a 26' Raven is still a pre-1950 design...
     
  11. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    Hacking up a classic was not my first inclination.
    I'm still hoping someone can point me towards a boat that meets my requirements. Note: "winning" the race is not one of my requirements.
    26'0" is the minimum length to enter the Opera House Cup race, and it is the maximum length for a mooring permit in Nantucket harbor (without waiting 10+ years for one of the 27'+ mooring permits). Basically, the only 26' boats in the harbor that compete in the race are Alerions, but they don't interest my family as a daysailer (don't plane), and aren't useful as a daysailer for the rest of the summer, because they have a full keel and can't get near a beach for a picnic. (Also they are $60k+ for a 26' used sailboat, which seems high)
     
  12. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    I don't know your situation, of course, but perhaps the answer is an easily trailered 28 footer. No mooring fees at all.

    Try applying all this creative thinking to a different part of the problem.
     
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  13. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    Thanks for the creativity.
    "Honey, it was too hard to find one boat to do everything for our family... So I bought two!"
    If I had a place to store a 28ft E Scow on a trailer, and only use it for race day, then get any old fiberglass daysailer for the rest of the season, that would solve a lot of problems...
     
  14. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    The trick is to get your wife to think it was her idea. ;)

    -Will
     

  15. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    The E-scow is narrow enough to fit trough the doors of a standard shipping container, so if you have a storage yard in your area that rents them it's easy.

    Now if you don't want two boats, just cut the boat 2ft from the bow. Install flush bulkheads and small hatches in both parts, and use connecting hardware to get them back together. If you are lucky the forestay attachment point remains on the big part and you can hinge the bow to fold up onto the deck. If not you need a separate removable baby stay to keep the mast up at anchor, and float the bow in place. The bowsprit you fit on deck, either as folding or sliding.
    The race committee should recognize the boat, you didn't change the design, just converted it to a folding or removable bow.

    Example of connecting hardware that needs a hatch only in one part: PT Eleven Connective Hardware | Port Townsend Watercraft BLOG http://ptwatercraft.com/blog/?p=495
     
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