Help me find a boat: 26ft planing centerboard wood sailboat?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by griffinb, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    I will keep an eye out for 26' Thames A Raters.
    The closest I've found so far is the Raven class. Wood, centerboard, planes, pre-1950, but only 24'3" loa.
     
  2. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    If I could find a 26' wood E scow that might do it...
     
  3. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    The link for this 110 is already removed.
    LOA is measured as : "Length of hull, excluding bowsprits and boomkins"
    http://www.classicyachts.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/CRF-Data-Input-Definitions_201210.pdf
     
  4. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    I don't think reverse/inverted bows are allowed for Spirit of Tradition boats.
    Pretty close though. Centerboard, the right length, the right performance, wood (though technically it should be cold-molded instead of plywood)

    I'm still hoping to find, in this order:
    1. a used boat
    2. a historic design I could have built
    3. a new Spirit of Tradition build (if I do this, I would probably start with a clean sheet for the design)
     
  5. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    The E scow design dates to 1924.
    I did a quick browse of Craig's List around Oshkosh -only a 16ft woody free to pickup. If you put a WTB add in the area I think your odds would be better than 50%. You could contact the class society. I think they would be sufficiently amused by your plan to set you up. Legend has it that the sand baggers didn't just leave the east coast, they were run out with disputed gambling claims and the scows extreme speed was motivated by the desire to prove they were right.
     
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  6. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    I just posted a WTB on criagslist:
    26ft wood sailboat - wanted - by owner - sale https://eauclaire.craigslist.org/wan/d/oshkosh-26ft-wood-sailboat/7472611547.html

    and I just emailed the E Scow class association.
     
  7. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Transom mounted rudders excluded, as well?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  8. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

  9. Steve Clark
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    Steve Clark Charged Particle

    Your best bet is to find a wood E Scow. They are only 2 feet longer than your specification, are have centerboards and are definitely planing boats. The wood ones are all old enough to be cheap, but the class is active so good used sails will be available as well as scow specific replacement parts. The Scows are certainly one of the highly refined wooden sailing machines and aren't fairly represented in the classic boat circuit. I haven't sailed scows much but what I have done told me that they are less atrocious in waves than reported. Or maybe it's just that we are more familiar with light flat boats and what was unacceptable slamming in the 1940s isn't unacceptable anymore. Certainly the Scows are sailed on "Inland Lakes" that are as big as Nantucket Sound and which are all known by the local grey beards to have "bad chop." I don't think the limit is the design, but how they were built: thin white cedar planks screwed to small closely spaced ribs.

    I sailed a wood 1950s Johnson on Cayuga Lake in the late 70's. We weren't racing, but I was the designated driver for what Maureen called "raising the thrill threshold." When it was blowing NW20+ and the lake had its 30 mile fetch working, it was game on and I wasn't encouraged to back off. In fact it was just the opposite. It was akin to driving a limousine street rod as fast as you could down a mountain road with all your friends partying in the back and Steely Dan pumping on the loudest ******* stereo you have ever heard. Tom Dean had done a great job rebuilding her at least once, and would look back at me from the jib sheets with the "I hope you know what your doing but do it again look in his eyes." The bottom sometimes looked like a waterbed. So I think two diagonal plies of Western Red Cedar would do great things to keep the basket of thin planks and small ribs in close proximity.
    You will never run square down wind in a seaway without stuffing the nose deep enough in a wave to regret it, sailing hot angles isn't a choice.

    You will want to double up on the shock cord and line diaphragm pumps and make sure you have more flotation in the bow and stern than the several hundred empty beer cans I convinced myself would be helpful if I really stuck it in a ditch. Probably the boat you will find will have some problems, so I would consider laminating a few plies of diagonal Western Red Cedar Veneer to the outside of the hull. Chances are that the increase in displacement will offset the increase in weight and the hull will be significantly more robust.

    Other than that, I don't think you have a lot of options because planing boats were pretty limited to dinghy size in the classic period...mostly because of materials and techniques. The 26' LOA minimum may be an intentional strategy to keep the foxes out of the hen house.
    SHC
     
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  10. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    E scow newsletters are very informative.
    REPORTER Magazine Archives - National Class E Scow Association (e-scow.org)
    There is a very nice history of how the class developed.
    Summer_1977_Vol_13_No_1_1167807007.pdf
    I would anticipate difficulty getting approved to race and be ready with an indisputable period correct design. The designs official centennial birthday is 2024. There should be a replica campaigned anywhere that will let it race to celebrate.

    wood e.jpg

    or even better
    Vic Carpenter Racing E-Scow for sale | Port Carling Boats - Antique & Classic Wooden Boats for Sale

    28ft modern kit cruiser
    The Sailscow range has expanded with a 28-foot Optimum... which has everything of a great! – A revolution in yachting
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
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  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

  12. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    No, I had never seen the Cap Vert. She checks a lot of boxes, but doesn't look fast. I doubt she would plane? Also, none available for sale.
     
  13. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    The wood e-scows are at least readily available. This one too:
    melges E Scow sailboat for sale in Colorado https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/92974
    So, we know of a 24' planing centerboarder (Raven) from pre-1950, and a 28'er (E Scow), but none that are 26'?

    So this is my "plan"?
    1. buy a wood E Scow (easy)
    2. chop 24" off the length? Probably the stern. It doesn't look like it would interfere with the mainsheet traveler or the rudder.
    Maybe I only need to chop 13"-19", and I can get the new LOA rounded down to 26'.
    3. Somehow re-register the boat with a new length? Any advise on this?
    4. Somehow convince the race committee that even though the boat is registered as 26', they should still let me race as a classic design. Any advise on this?
    5. We skipped the part on guessing how terrible it would be, trying to sail the boat with 2ft missing in the stern...

    I'm allowed to sheath the boat in fiberglass, so I'm not worried about strength/stiffness.
    I would certainly add flotation. I'm thinking air bladders inside the hull.
     
  14. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Losing 24" in the stern would have the effect of shifting the CE aft, along with the CLR. Probably wouldn't change her sailing characteristics too dramatically. Their relative positions would be unaffected. However, you might want to add a little more weight aft, to replace both the weight you took off and the reduced lever arm utilized by crew to counter the driving force aloft. She might stuff her nose just a little more than usual. I would think experimentation would be the best way to learn what was right.
     

  15. griffinb
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    griffinb Junior Member

    Center of Effort (CE) is defined by the rig, which I hadn't yet thought to change, so CE would not move, correct?
    Center of Lateral Resistance (CLR) would actually move forward, because that last 2ft of stern would no longer contribute, correct?
    If CE does not move, and CLR moves forward, then weather-helm would be increased, correct?

    If I have to chop 24" off the stern, I could try to compensate by removing as much weight from the bow as possible, to maintain static for/aft trim? I could remove the retractable bow spirit, since it's not allowed for the classic race anyway? I wonder if the weight shift could be offset by crew moving aft? Maybe add a trapeze, since I don't care about being class legal?
     
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