Help Me Design a Boat for an IOM World Championship Campaign

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by WerpKerp, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    I was thinking about this last night, and I was wondering, Doug, if classes with more design leeway would be good for my purposes. See, the reason I wish to design my own racing yacht is to learn about fluid dynamics, hydrodynamics, and other things that will one day help me achieve my dream, to become an designer in either Formula One or for racing yachts.
     
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  2. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Marblehead? 10R? Are they raced on Long Island or in NY?
     
  3. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==============
    I would suggest you get a used IOM if the boat is raced near you or get a boat-any boat-that is raced near you and start racing on a regular basis. Learn the Racing Rules of Sailing! Use your spare time to learn about design. Try to get on as crew on as many fullsize boats as you can. This would be a multi-pronged effort to improve your sailing skills and your understanding of design. One thing about the existing RC classes: not one single RC class except the AMYA "Open" class allows movable ballast systems , hydrofoils or fully gybable spinnakers
    Technologically, all the recognized classes- AMYA or International- PROHIBIT many of the most advanced technologies being used on full size modern race boats. There is no existing class of rc racing multihulls in the USA. There is no class in existence where you could compete utilizing state of the art modern technology. So, in my opinion, you'd be well off to get involved in the best existing rc racing available in the IOM class or the most popular local class. You can study sailboat design in your spare time and try to spend some time sailing as crew on full size race boats(from dinghies on up). Gradually, you'll learn a lot about sailboat design and about yourself and what you're really interested in . Then you can begin to focus on that. Don't be in a great rush-just do this stuff on a regular basis and have fun doing it and you'll learn a whole lot!
    PS-make sure to subscribe to Seahorse magazine and join US Sailing and the AMYA......Above all have fun and good luck!

    Experimental AMYA "Open" Class boats done about 20 years ago. When you join AMYA you'll get a copy of Model Yachting every quarter(I think) and as you get more into racing and design you'll be able to submit articles about your ideas. The F3 was the first rc production sailing foiler, America One and the S50 were the first production ,fully gybable, rc spinnaker boats. The Super Scow was the first rc sailboat to utilize a Trapeze Power Ballast System:

    Scow PBS 001.JPG Super Scow-new-old-picture_002.JPG F3 foiler.jpg America One and Spinnaker 50-worlds first production RC spinnaker boats.jpg
     
  4. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    S0 I've been studying successful IOM designs, and I've noticed two major trends
    -Bow that curves upwards? I assume to reduce resistance when the boat hits a wave?
    -Hard Chines, especially near the stern, I assume for stability upwind, like normal yachts,
     
  5. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Hey guys, do you know of any programs where I can draw up a CAD yacht that work on chrome?
     
  6. Clarkey
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: UK

    Clarkey Junior Member

    Have a look at 'Onshape' - there is a free version and it runs in the cloud. I use it on a basic Chromebook and performance is fine.
     
  7. Earl Boebert
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Albuquerque NM USA

    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    Here's my advice, FWIW.

    First, since you are going to be teaching yourself, you need to have sharp internet search skills so you can find the information you need without relying on the kindness of strangers. You should be a whiz not just with Google but also Bing, DuckDuckGo, StartPage, and forum searches here and on the sailboats group of rcgroups.com

    Second, I would recommend against using an IOM as a platform for learning. The class is highly restricted (anything not explicitly allowed in the rules is forbidden) and very mature. Type forming has taken hold, and experienced designers are very good at finding the "sweet spot" in the design space defined by the rules. I think you would be very frustrated by the restrictions and running up against such experienced and specialized competition.

    I would suggest using the RG65 class as a platform. The rules are minimal: limits on LOA, sail area and rig height. Everything else is open. Horizontal foils are illegal but foiling research can be done later. More details at http://www.rg65usa.org

    I would begin by buying a Dragon Force 65 (DF65) and learning how to tune and sail it. A DF65 is a fully legal RG65. You can get one, radio and all, for a couple of hundred bucks and change. This exercise will teach you how an RC sailboat works, and give you a tool for doing the next step.

    The next step would be to design a boat that is faster than a DF65. Trust me, this will be no easy task; Mark Dicks, the designer, is really, really good. Since your primary interest seems to be in hydrodynamics and hull design, I would proceed by buying a second DF65 and cannibalizing it for radio, foils, and rig. I would then build my (hopefully) superior hull and equipping it with the DF65 rig, etc. Now you would have a stock DF65 to use as a reference boat to sail against, you will know how to tune the rig on your (hopefully) superior boat, and you will be able to sail the boats against each other to see what effect your new hull has.

    Once you are convinced that you really do have a better hull, you can start playing with different kinds of rigs and (legal) foils.

    If you are interested in branching out to full foiling, the RG65 class is an interesting place to start because the class has the highest power to weight ratio of all the recognized classes.

    This may seem to be a kind of stodgy sequence when what you want to dive right in and start doing impressive stuff, but if you're going to grow up to be an engineer you need to learn how to "plan your work and work your plan."

    Best of luck, keep us informed.

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
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  8. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Eisenhower Park Model Yacht Club sails 50/800 Marbleheads
    www.epmyc.org
    Central Park sails IOMs
    www.cpmyc.org
    Which do I join, and which should I sail? Thanks!
     
  9. Earl Boebert
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Albuquerque NM USA

    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    Eisenhower sails DF/RG65s, so if you intend to use those as your base I'd go there.

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
  10. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Earl, thanks. I'll look into RG65s.
     
  11. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    I want to use a tandem keel. Would that help performance?
     
  12. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    What would be the advantage of a tandem keel? The disadvantage is that the aft keel will be running in the turbulent stream of the forward keel. Tandems will also have more wetted surface than a mono keel. of sufficient area and profile to get the job done.

    WK do keep thinking and asking questions. You have gotten some sage advice from experienced and impressively educated respondents in several places above. They are more than willing to help you because you seem to be a bright young guy. Listen to their council.
     
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  13. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    RG65 or Marblehead. Final decision.
     
  14. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Marblehead
    Pros
    -More popular
    -Faster

    RG-65
    -Less popular, but growinhg
    -Less expensive
    -Slower
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I think Earls suggestion about the DF and RG 65 was excellent.The DF 65 is a one design class that is growing rapidly and would be great to learn to race.
    Get one and start racing on a regular basis. Then down the line you can experiment with the open rules of the RG 65 and use your DF65 as a trial horse.
    The Marblehead is a big* boat and one of the most expensive semi-development
    classes there is. I wouldn't think the Marblehead is more popular than the DF. As far as I know there is the International Marblehead and the a sort of "sub-class" of Marblehead/50/800 that doesn't go by the International rules. I stopped following it years ago but Earl would know better.
    For your long term goals ,as I understand them, the DF/RG 65 seems like the best way to go.
    *approx 7' mast on "A" rig-multiple(up to 5, I think) rigs allowed.

    DF 65:

    DragonForce 65 2018 Version 6 650mm DF65 Class RC Sailboat https://radiosailing.net/products/dragonforce-65-2017-version-6-650mm-df65-class-rc-sailboat
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
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