Help me choosing right design

[redreuben]

Richard;
good prismatic coefficients can be had in many different styles, and at least a light curve in a panel is stronger, you know this !
I guess it's a by product of you being a successful designer and going the distance, but I agree with the OP your designs are now looking a bit dated.
No offence intended.

 

[DGreenwood]

I built some small boats with resorcinal years ago and got to watch how the held up for decades. I never had a glue joint fail. The pressure thing can be a bit deceptive....a panel is normally attaching to things like a chine or stringer where the pressure of the nails isn't spread out so much. The main challenge in this area was keeping up a good temperature as it needed about 70 degrees plus as I recall. Without a doubt epoxy is easier to use and can make up for less than perfect work but resorcinal can have a place for the craftsman.

Sorry...anecdotal assertions that you have witnessed some long lasting joints don't really hold up to the glue manufacturers lab proven requirements for pressure and temp control well beyond the capability of a home builder. If a home builder were even able to achieve a 1/4 of that pressure it would be very impressive. The stuff just does not really work any better than Gorilla glue for the home builder.

 

[cavalier mk2]

Sorry D, at least I have experience. I think you are missing the fact that the resorcinal marketed to home builders was formulated for them and home working conditions. Do your homework, there are differences.

 

[cookiesa]

I have to agree that fast, cheap and comfortable (full headroom) are incompatible aims. My contribution to this debate is based on 10+ years with a strip-planked Simpson 30' cat and a couple of years with an (also strip planked) 22'Tri both of which I built myself.

You will find the accomodation on any small tri impossible to live with,other than for a couple of days a a time.

Forget Wharrams unless cost i your only real criterion - the headroom doesn't exist

You have plenty of better options with a cat but as others have advised, forget full headroom on the bridgedeck for anything under about 40' unless you want it to look like a truck. You can certainly have this in the hulls. A solution I used very effectively is a raised doghouse - it looks good, provides headroom when entering and movng between hulls and gives cover from the weather while a the helm. Overall though,the Simpson design looked"old fashioned" even if his boats are fairly easy to build and have a good seagoing reputation. Try the Tomcat32 I don't know much about them but they also have a doghouse and the design looks good and you may be able to purchase the plans

Re construction methods, ply is quick. Don't know much about foam but some swear by it. I prefer strip planked cedar but it is expensive and slow. Paulownia is much cheaper and arguably better than cedar. Regardless, the hulls are only about one third of the total cost - the real money goes into the rig,sails, stainless work, winches etc.

Overall, why not buy a ready-made boat - you will save yourself a lot on hassles and probably money too. Someone else will have sorted out the problems


Cheers from OZ

Great looking boats oz!

 

[redreuben]

STRIP PLANKING IS NOT SLOW !
If you glue the strips on one at a time it is but that is not necessary, commercial builders plank the hull with a slight gap/chamfer on the boards and screed the epoxy on in one hit.
VERY FAST.

 

[Rastapop]

There is more to a boat than its looks. Few of us chose partners based on looks either. We go for their money, their cooking skills and whether they make us laugh.

Yep, performance and capabilities first, looks a distant second.

 

[DGreenwood]

Sorry D, at least I have experience. I think you are missing the fact that the resorcinal marketed to home builders was formulated for them and home working conditions. Do your homework, there are differences.

Please Perhaps you could put your vast experience to use and send me in the direction of a brand of glue for home builders that I may do my homework on?

 

[sharan69]

Guys, please be more constructive. If you insist to continue with the discussion about the glue qualities, please create separate thread. Same about Wharam's.

Yep, performance and capabilities first, looks a distant second.

This type of remarks doesn't help me too. Probably it is true, but please be more specific.

Please excuse me if this sounds rude.


Continuing offtopic:

Originally Posted by Richard Woods
There is more to a boat than its looks. Few of us chose partners based on looks either. We go for their money, their cooking skills and whether they make us laugh.

WOW!!. Generally, totally disagree - at least for men. Usualy look is first, laugh/talk is second. Money/cooking are very good to have, but if you earn enough, you dont need her's and there is restaurants.

I am considering to buy a cat too, but I am not sure I want to buy 20-30 years old one.
Yeah, money is a limiting factor. Should have read Richard's check list 12 years ago

I have "evolved" a bit since the beginning of the thread, that's why Waller 1100 is topping the list now.
Big enough for living aboard, standing headroom, relatively good outlook, designer claims "safe and good performance, ocean voyaging". Galley on the bridgedeck also looks good to me.
I have read that some builders are using outboards instead of diesels, so this should not be a problem.
So the only thing missing from my initial list is daggerboards. And unknown performance.

 

[cavalier mk2]

Please Perhaps you could put your vast experience to use and send me in the direction of a brand of glue for home builders that I may do my homework on?

I could but you need to learn some things for yourself. This one is easy if you do your own research then you won't be able to yell about anecdotal hearsay.
Most of the people on these forums who champion one method really haven't used any other.

Sorry to the OP for the thread drift....a build has many things to consider.

 

[Steve W]

To the OP, have you looked at Peter Snells range of "Easy" cats? Ive got to say I agree with Richard on the looks thing. I spent a week cruising on a Catana 48 back around the turn of the century and while it was a good looking boat there were so many compromises favoring looks that I came away with a list of things not to do when designing a cat. To me the best looking cats out there are the Gunboats and yet they look like they are built out of sheetgoods. To me the Shionning boats with the ridiculously large radii everywhere look like they were sculpted out of butter and left out in the sun. The first time i saw a Lagoon with the vertical windows i thought it was hideous, then i went on board and it made sense, a fine example of form follows function, a courageous design/ build that could have been a big flop but amazingly a lot of people preferred a design aspect that worked well enough to embrace ugly.

Steve.

 

[aussiebushman]

Reuben

I don't want to be rude about it, but there is a vast difference between a pro builder working with a high quality jig and the amateur builder who has build the jig for a one-time operation. The latter might be spot on to the drawings, but in practice there will be highs and lows that need slight compensation. It is easier to do this and achieve fair curves if each strake is clamped to the previous one. There will still be some filling to do. I speak from experience - it takes time.

Regardless, the end result is worthwhile with a fair and strong hull of pretty much any desirable shape. As for the bonding epoxy is the only sensible way to go

Alan

 

[redreuben]

Reuben

I don't want to be rude about it, but there is a vast difference between a pro builder working with a high quality jig and the amateur builder who has build the jig for a one-time operation. The latter might be spot on to the drawings, but in practice there will be highs and lows that need slight compensation. It is easier to do this and achieve fair curves if each strake is clamped to the previous one. There will still be some filling to do. I speak from experience - it takes time.

Regardless, the end result is worthwhile with a fair and strong hull of pretty much any desirable shape. As for the bonding epoxy is the only sensible way to go

Alan

Fair enough Alan,
I worked with a pair of Kiwis and we built 3 Farr 9.2's quicktime. Cheap ply frames along a glulam strong back.
I was the laminator and helped with the planking also. Keeping it fair between frames was done with thin ply strips and a staple gun, not difficult even on the dry scarfs.
Yes there are tricks of the trade like, on such a curvy fat hull they re-marked the lay of the planks now and again, ran a circular saw through it and continued planking, not such an issue on a long thin cat hull.
Any method has pitfalls, the concave convex method can create unfairness as the builder avoids spiling the planks and builds up twisting tension.
The dry method spiling is a piece of cake, so is fixing problems in unglued planking with a circular saw and ply strips and staple gun.
At the end of the day each builder chooses the method that suits them, I just want to put it out there that with strip builds the labor intensive one plank at a time method is not the only way to strip the cat.
Peace.