Help Calibrating Gel Coat Gun Binks 2100 GW

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by LabRat, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. LabRat
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    LabRat LabRat

    Recently purchased a Binks 2100 GW gun where the curative and resin mix with each other outside the gun and need help with calibration. Very confused on how to calculate the curative and the instructions included do not seem to make sense. Any help would be great or references to calibrating these kind of guns. Have been searching many sites without finding specifics.
     
  2. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    You want the truth... there is no way to calibrate it....its a complete guess as to whether you're delivering the correct amount of catalyst.

    This set up seems like a good idea, but since the systems (gel coat and catalyst) operate completely independent of one another there is no way to ensure the ratio is correct. You could do a test in the normal old school way by capturing the gel coat and then the catalyst for 15 seconds each and weigh each one, then calculate the % of catalyst.....But. And there is a big BUT, as soon as you adjust the fan of either component you will change the ratio. It will also change with air pressure, the amount of product in the container, temperature, etc.

    These guns never caught on because of this glitch.
     
  3. jiggerpro
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Hi Ondavr,

    I will soon be facing the purchase of a gelcoat spraying system, and completely agree on what you said, ( not to mention, that Binks tech advise service sucks ) so what would be in your opinion the best system to purchase ( the one you would buy for yourself) ??
     
  4. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    I would like to help, but I don't know what guns are available in Spain.

    Here I would probably buy a Magnum unit.
     
  5. War Whoop
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    I would setup the MEKP spray with water to get the fan close then clean and spray some gelcoat on a plastic or metal target and then use a Gel timer to check,spraying I would use a 4 pass per panel @ 6 Mills per pass , keep the gun vertical as the pickup for the side spray can be starved if the gun is turned horizontal.
     
  6. War Whoop
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    I agree they are the only game in town that is dependable.
     
  7. jiggerpro
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Mr Ondavr, very probably the very same equipment available in the states, is available in spain/europe, I understand that you mean magnum venus plastech, but which technology external mix, internalmix, ? ........... because, as I see it, IMHO the calibrating issues would be the same, some say that the only truly reliable way is the use of a pressure pot combined with a HVLP gun with a large tip, but this set up will certainly have the stress factor of a fast cure inside the pot/gun .......... so what is the best way ?
     
  8. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Did you get the operators manual with the gun ??
    I looked up on line to Binks and you have to dilute the catalyst to change the MIX I am amased the such a company as binks would make such a spray gun .
    I had used the binks gun on a pressure pot for years and they are superb to use and so easy servive and operate and there spray is one of the best i have seem .
    I dont like extenal mix guns of any discription including chopper or resin guns and definitly not gel coat guns !!Smelly and catalyst floating round in the air !! No thank you !!:rolleyes: .
    One company i was the Glass shop factory manager for had 6 chopper guns all external mix , It was a constant job keeping them working at there optimim performance . I had to keep enough bits to completely service 3 guns in stock all the time !:eek:

    Personally if you are into spraying gel coat in Quantity i would return to where ever you got it and get just a pressure pot system ,Pre catalyse the gel coat and spray it !, Much simpler and fool proof !:D Well almost !!:(

    I am in the process of making a pressure pot at the place where i work and no one has a clue what i am doing as they have never seem the system or how versitle to can be ! They are real easy to make and operate and worth the weight in Gold . :p
     
  9. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    @ Jiggerpro:

    I will ask one of my colleagues for advise. Keep in mind that keeping a machine in top shape is quite some work. These things gain more problems by not using them than by using them. Keeping our demo systems (irregularly used) in shape is a hell of a job.
     
  10. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    I like the new Magnum Patriot unit, I say new, but its been around for several years.

    I like internal mix, but the vast majority of units in service are external mix, they each have good and bad points. The internal mix can be tougher to tell if you're actually getting catalyst though, so the external is more popular.
     
  11. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    Install an optional alarm on the catalyst. If it warns you once, it already paid for itself.
     
  12. War Whoop
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    Herman is right the $500.00 for the alarm is cheap Insurance,I used the ProGun on a modified System One Venus rig ,Loved the Gun BTW Magnum owns Venus.

    Now On the Binks side spray Gelcoat gun, there are no calibration scales,

    the MEKP is handled Via Air pressure, Valve adjusted and a Needle valve on the spray head for the MEKP flow, which I would set at a couple turns out on setup after cleaning,

    the thing is to get the two fans to intersect properly ,the fitting for the MEKP spray is tapped into the Gun with a 1/8" Pipe thread, keep that tight,Now that little Toy looking union is very expensive from Binks as well if it gets damaged, I would use #68 Tips also.
     
  13. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    The alarms do help, but depending on the type used they can give misleading results.

    If the alarm uses a pressure sensor it only checks to see if the there is pressure in the line, if the gun portion is plugged then you will have good pressure, but no catalyst being delivered. If it has a flow sensor, it depends on where the sensor is mounted, because again, if the gun is plugged the catalyst will still flow, but will go through the by pass valve and back into the container. Both types will let you know if the catalyst pump has failed though. I would say less than 2% of my customers use a catalyst alarm on any of their spray equipment, mostly because the majority use external mix, or because they use red catalyst or vanishing dye catalyst. Although these are mostly used on chopper guns I do have a couple of customers that use the Vanishing dye for gel coat.

    Most shops that have installed catalyst alarms end up ignoring them or disconnecting them after a period time. I’m not saying the alarms are don’t help, only that most of the industry doesn’t use them for one reason or another.
     
  14. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    External mix you can see the MEKP spray and a Flow meter can be used as well ,The internal mix guns are where the operator needs to be alert and keep the equipment in good condition,We had the old Pneumatic Alarms and the newer ones as well,Now if someone sets a gun up they need fired,I will put it this way a Alarm is better than NO alarm!
     

  15. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    I have just finished doing a total recondition of a venus gelcoating system and its a beautiful gun to use . Because of the cold weather we have a inline heater and have set the temprature at 55c , this way the operator gets a good idea of how much is going on the job as theres the old tell tail spray pattern . 65C and the gelcoat is like gloss paint on the moulds surface and to easy to get thin places . Using the wet surface thickness gauge is like pushing brown smelly stuff up hill with a sharp pencil , But they are learning gradually .
    I started working with a venus gun saturator gun back in the 1970s and used most of there models over the years . Looked after and kept in top condition is the key with anything mechanical . Have made and set up untold pressure pots to spray all kinds a things . Gel coat is easy to spray and the binks guns are tops, Big jobs or small , easy to service and alway reliable . After each session of gel coating the guns are completely dimantaled and soaked in acetone then thoughly cleaned and lightly oiled and reassembled . Is clean when there are no traces of the gelcoat you have just sprayed, inside or out . After a year it should still look like it is new !
    Set up one gun system to spray differant colors one after the other with a pint of acetone to clean the line and gun and off to the next color . IN a 90 minute gel coating session the company sprayed up to 7 differant colors starting with white and through the shades of light colors to Royal blue or even Guardsmen red as the last . Then a complete dismantal and clean job .
    The lady gel coat sprayer was methodical and made a beautiful job of her gelcoating and after 6 months of continuos use 6 days a week the binks gun still looked like brand new .:D
    Used glass graft external but was never struck on the thing , Poly craft and Robinson but non matchs the Venus :p
     
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