Design / Build Cockpit/Helm Control Panels ?

Hello, I'm relatively new here; I've scanned a lot last week or so....

Is anyone here involved in building their own Cockpit/Helm/Operator Control Panels for new or old boat construction?

I have built a couple of inboard boats, and made typical metal-panel, switch and instrument control panels that worked out OK... But now I'm looking to do a modern approach for a larger boat (probably a rebuild/upgrade). I saw the references here to collaboration on designs, and I would be interested in talking / working with others who are involved in the Human Interface part of Power / Sail boat design.

OK, I have a background in computers / software / electronics / industrial controls and have built a lot of electronics devices and systems. I will be prototyping this stuff for the next, um, 5 months or so before I relocate to where I will start looking for a nice old boat!

I want to build operator controls that combine several things:

- Conventional mechanical/hydraulic steering, throttle, forward/reverse controls
- Basic conventional Engine / Systems instrumentation and switches.
(I'm not up for fly-by-wire just yet!)

Plus

- Computer-based display(s) and Human Interface:
- For Computer-based navigation / autopilot
- For Computer-based monitoring and logging of details of onboard systems, temperatures, weather etc.
- For At-Anchor activities such as checking email and electronics-based entertainment.

I want to combine an LCD display in the cockpit/wheelhouse (with, hopefully, good waterproofing, isolation, light/reflection properties etc), with a somewhat conventional-looking control panel with buttons, toggle and other switches, and (perhaps) a "joystick". These interface devices will be connected to an onboard computer system running conventional PC navigation and other software. There are available devices that can take up to 50 or so switch closures and joysticks and present them to the PC over a single USB connection. (Example: http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html)

There has been lots of discussion and work about onboard X86 computer systems, software, power etc. elsewhere so I won't repeat that here. Lots of the original work was done by people putting computers in cars for navigation and entertainment purposes.

I want to do typical underway interaction with the Nav software (OziExplorer etc) with switches that are appropriate to the cockpit environment, not with any conventional keyboard / mouse / trackball etc. I would like a nice, solid, definitive switch CLICK with one hand on the wheel in rough weather!

I would like to discuss this Cockpit/Wheelhouse design stuff with anyone who has done some of this or who is contemplating it. There are a few obvious questions that don't apply to the CarComputer guys:

- Salt-spray proof(resistant) switches (Much is known about this, right??)
- Salt-Spray resistant joysticks / boots etc.
- Vibration-resistant methods of switch connection and wiring.
- Control Panel layouts: grouping / location of functions etc.

Anybody into this??


Any pointers to information / discussions / ideas / opinions appreciated!

Regards, Terry King ...On The Mediterranean in Carthage, North Africa
... Vermont / Lake Champlain June-July
... China near Hong Kong next 2 or 3 years

 

Industrial Models May Apply?

TerryKing,

If I may separate the two stations, one in the weather and the other in not, then I'd address the outside station here.

The most cost effective method is to use a NEMA 4 or NEMA 7 industrial touch screen. These range in size from a few inches square to 20" diagonal. Some are merely interface screens others are fully panel PC's. So some of these installations are using a 'brick' PC (PC104, PC-on-a-stick, or STD form factors) the others use a low mezzanine profile so the motherboard is in the 'back' of the screen.

They are rated for hose-down environments. Most often the boards are conformal coated and they're not designed for lots of reconfiguration growth. Instead they're ordered with the board populated by the options needed and that's how they're expected to spend their time.

The reason to skip discrete instruments is the cost. Add all the discrete devices costs and triple (or quadruple) their value to afford the labor and materials to install and the hardware is bought. Then the discrete instrumentation needs install seals and the single panel now wins hand's down.

Mounted vertically with a plexi shroud to help keep the screen as clear to read as possible you can scroll from HMI screen to screen just like in a plant DAS or SCADA screen.

We install these on recip compressor control panels on the offshore platforms and they shake quite a bit. The rooms get cleaned with a wash down and the cabinets and screens have to take it.

I believe the newer engines and almost all other high $ equipment is being packaged now with one or another marine network standard port; so using this method interface is mainly mapping the network, building screens and running the HMI app. to manage the dbase (instrument tag library database) and all the instruments are virtual- only ONE seal not 30 -no buttons- no dials to fail.

Your learning curve will be simply becoming familiar with the conventions in the emerging 'marine' network standards and whatever HMI package will poll these nodes in their native protocols.

[I doubt they'll be using Modbus or DataHiway PLUS!]

Cheers,
kmorin

 

kmorin, yes the separation of the issues into the "in the weather" section and others is right. NEMA is a recognized standard for physical protection from elements etc. Can you point to a few commercially-available units / costs?? Are there some that handle typical PC video outputs and Keyboard/USB inputs?

All the big-boat stuff I have seen uses Ethernet between stations; at the present low cost and high availability of Ethernet, and the ability to mix multiple uses such as WiFi Internet with everything else, it looks like the Standards-Cost-Interchangeability winner....

However, the Weatherside station may just be a video display and touchscreen on the main shipboard computer in simpler systems.

I asked the Generic question of this whole group, "Where should we discuss shipboard computers and electronics" (How do I point to it? Hmmm.. [LearnMode]) Well, try this:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16288

I will add another comment there soon; maybe we should take THIS discussion somewhere else... at least until we come up with some more specific collaborative project on a shipboard computer / controls system.

 

Display options

TerryKing, here are some likely candidates to help explore the range of possibilities for the type of controls interface we've discussed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xycom-Automatio...089607950QQcategoryZ97184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
eBay item with older control center lots of built in discretes instead of virtual screenware controls
http://cgi.ebay.com/Xycom-Automatio...088063892QQcategoryZ97184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
newer product touch screen type- plenty of horsepower to run HMI for a few hundred points.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Xycom-Automatio...103091609QQcategoryZ97184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Xycom again- another set of features.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cutler-Hammer-P...ryZ55827QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Cutler Hammer's screens are used with a screen building application that creates objects on the screen and 'talks' direct to a PLC of many mfg.s. I've used this type of display where the PLC needed interface.

http://www.hismonitors.com/?gclid=CMr5p43Y7YoCFSUfhgodRwmqkg
http://www.etouchtechnologies.com/saw.html
http://www.maptech.com/products/i3/docs/i3navigation.pdf

Xycom and Cutler Hammer's products are miles apart one's a full interface the other is a front end for a PLC (some other models not listed here -do more). The others are just random references of various products out there to package existing panels and displays for weather proof uses.

I think Ethernet is emerging like RS-232 serial did; a non-adopted but defacto standard for low cost networking. The chip set is so highly used its costs is a fraction of any other price per point. However the limit will be the adoption by the main mfg.'s in the marine hardware market.

Engines, gen sets, and electronics's mfg.'s are going to set the marine network standard by adoption of the most profitable (to them) network standards. Its already begun to show and will continue, once the momentum is heavy enough and customers start asking for one or another given protocol because of prior investment- then the rest of the peripheral product vendors will fall in line.

If I were building from scratch or remodeling all the way to a full new electrical system I'd look @ the different products and see which was the most open and vote with my dollars. On the other hand if I were retrofitting an existing boat by upgrading to a LAN wired boat; I'd see what protocol had the most versatile conversion modules and vote for that standard.

Retrofitting an existing 'non-smart' engine, gen set, HVAC or some other hardware system will require addressable I/O modules. Now they're available as AI, AO, DI, DO and many serial protocols to Ethernet so that standard may work well in a retrofit or systems comm. upgrade project.

But if the boat's hardware is new- or will be repurchased as part of the project, then they may already come with comm. ports and node addressability built it- in that case I'd vote for the standard that the chosen mfg.'s have provided and adopt that as the market force likely to emerge as future standard.

I'm not working on any new boats requiring this much hardware so I'm not conversant with what CAT of Volvo have offered?

Cheers,
kmorin

 

Onboard Networking

Thanks for the LCD panel pointers, I'm still digging thru them!

The networking stuff can work in a variety of ways, but on a boat with quite a bit of capability I think the NMEA devices will probably be converted to USB or Ethernet to go to the computer(s).

http://www.marinecomp.com/nmea-usb.htm is an example of what's available.

http://www.marinecomp.com/index.htm shows a lot of possibilities of computers and displays etc.

http://nuovamarea.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=78&osCsid=6cdba7c310a9f029409e173c59257bcf
shows NMEA to/from several networking possibilities.

So it's Out There and Doable.. .Of course I want to DIY all this stuff

 

What size boats are you targeting?

 

Helm / Cockpit.. Controls

I'm looking at a range from small cruising power/sail to moderate (say 30 to 50 foot??) and primarily DIY type installations. Large OEM vessels will have factory-installed systems of some complexity these days. This leaves DIY people at the smaller end of owner-built boats and refits of older boats.

I'm starting back on this project.. working on the NMEA interfaces and 'multiplexors' in microcomputer firmware. And I'll be starting to run a Mini-ITX PC type system soon, and explore the software possibilities.

There is some background on all this on the WIKI at:
http://www.boatdesign.net/wiki/Onboard_Computers

I'll be prototyping this stuff for several months and hoping to put some installation on some? 30 to 50 foot old boat in China this Fall.

 

I am doing same thing, not for profit - just for fun and my boat. I have spent about a year figuring out what software to write it in. I choose Real Basic it runs in Windows and Linux environments has good interfaces to everything. I actually wrote systems in a couple of languages for tests and this is the only one that had the low-level drivers and yet fulfilled the higher level ones too. I would be interested in Talking some more on this off thread. My email is mydauphin@gmail.com. I can actually send you a copy of what I have so far.

 

Onboard Computers and electronics

Great! Let's do two things: I will start another thread soon about the NMEA interfaces etc.. and I'd like to collaborate with you and some others on that stuff. Also let's connect on email a bit about where we are on the computer systems and software stuff. I'm sure the set of both sets of ideas will be better than one set!

I have some firmware in development in the newer PIC microcomputer chips that should do up to 8 serial port (NMEA) receivers plus other analog and digital inputs and put out a composite group of NMEA sentences to the computer, either as fast RS232 or USB. So far it looks like it has the speed (17 MIPS) to bit-bang the ports with 50% of the CPU cycles.

I also have some other research going on with touch-panel chips that will work thru a 1/8" Lexan panel. I want to come up with an approach to the most-exposed conn position where LCD display, and all controls, buttons and displays are behind that one panel, and can be hit with a pail of salt water.

I am thinking Mini-ITX, WinXP (with commercial NAV software like OziExplorer) and some display software for Engines, Onboard Systems etc (Which you're a lot farther along with that I am!)...

Maybe we can get some stuff working as an open-source DIY hardware/software thing..

OK.. some offline, but let's get discussions online here soon???

Whatcha Think??

 

Working together

I am looking at a Cube for engine room reporting http://www.industrialcontroldesignline.com/products/197006739

and

E-plex for House control system.
http://www.airpax.net/site/control/what_is_eplex/index.html

I like idea that they can work independently of computer.
Anyway please email my at mydauphin@gmail.com