Have requirements, build or buy

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by zoomee, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. zoomee
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: va

    zoomee New Member

    I sail a 20' sportboat in the Mid Ches Bay area. Looking for my ideal retirement boat.

    Must be fast & fun to sail. Speed over comfort. around 40'. Mainly singlehanded in Bay...occasional trip to the islands. Want to find old racing rigs & sails (like when they upgrade fm al to carbon...i'll take the old stuff. Must have retractable keel, to 24" depth for gunkholing. maybe canting would be fun. Spartan interior. All electric propulsion if possible, limited range OK.

    Ideas? Build or buy?
     
  2. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    On today's market, BUY.

    There are some unbelievable bargains in the USA right now, no way you can build for the price some very good boats are being sold for.
     
  3. John Riddle
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: Vermilion, Ohio

    John Riddle Junior Member

    Zoomee:

    If presumed cost does not deter you from considering a new build (vs. buying an existing vessel), maybe you would be interested in a 44' daysailer, originally designed to plane in 12 knots of breeze? That requires it be light so the accommodations are spartan, yet livable. Please contact me at my email address for details.
     
  4. zoomee
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    zoomee New Member

    Land...OK...buy what? Who makes a boat that meets these requirements?

    John...does the 44 have retractable keel?
     
  5. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Sounds to me like a 35 foot cat would be perfect for you. Fast, easy to sail and it would easily hit your draft requirements.

    I can't imagine that buiding right now would be worth it. Not since I got an e-mail offering new boats at 50% off their normal list price due to overstocked inventory and a big cash crunch.
     
  6. John Riddle
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: Vermilion, Ohio

    John Riddle Junior Member

    Zoomee:

    The 44 does have a retractable keel.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    In the 40' range, there are dozens of shoal draft yachts for sale, many quite cheap. I know of a Pearson 36 in Rockhall, a Hunter 36 on Solomons Island, another Pearson 43 in Baltimore, all shoal draft. It's a buyer's market. Bring cash and offer half their asking price to start negotiations.
     
  8. zoomee
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    zoomee New Member

    No shoal draft or cats...I'm a mono hull performance sailor. Can't imagine anything other than a retractacle deep draft bulb and since I'm often single handed canting would be nice. It's mostly Bay use so not I'm not too worried about breaking it. John says he builds something close as a custom so I'll check that out

    It seems to be an obvious need...I'm surpised there is nothing in production.
     
  9. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Zoomee,

    I won't say it hasn't been done, but a 40' boat with a retractable keel to 24" would be an odd requirement. I would be very hesitant about the stability of the boat with the keel up, Though if an engineer said it would work, I am sure it could be designed.

    As for a canting keel however... Even in fully crewed raceboats these things are a pain. At least for now they are prone to breaking, induce all sorts of twist problems on a hull, and require daggerboards or a third fin to prevent slippage. Even putting aside the failure risk, the hydrolic systems canting keels rely on are heavy complex, expensive, and prone to failure. To me while these may be reasonable under extreme race conditions they just don't belong on a cruising boat.

    If you really feel like you need more ballast than I think a water ballast system would probably be a better idea since all it takes is a could of pumps and some hose.
     
  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Forget about canting, retractable appendages, unless your budget is three to five times that of a conventional shoal, performance oriented cruiser. At 40', you'll be hard pressed to get below 48" with the board up. A rare few will give you 42". Having grown up on the eastern shore, shoal draft is a must, but production yachts have yet to find an economical method to build a reliable canting setup. A custom could be done, but these aren't easy boats to sail.

    24" of draft isn't realistic. Lets picture a 12" tall bulb (certainly not unreasonable), attached to a retracting appendage. This leaves 12" for the belly of the boat on a 40' yacht. It could be done, but surely would be a custom, with quite high freeboard too if you want standing headroom.

    Considering what the market is like and the models available, finding something shouldn't be difficult, but it will require some leg work on your part.
     
  11. Charles Burgess
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Pensacola FL - USA

    Charles Burgess Naval Architect

    Chesapeake Bay area? Sounds like a sharpie or skipjack would fit the limited specs very nicely.

    You are not likely to find a used one for sale, since the owners all seem to be rather intensely in love with their boat. You might look in the classified ads at woodenboat magazine, their mag and/or website.

    They are rather easy to build and maintain; very easily singlehanded; and only need a whisper of wind to go - in a breeze they can be very fast. The DSF rating would be for inshore.

    Since this is your retirement boat, you might find some stock plans that do everything you have in mind. But more than likely you will need a custom design, which isn't all that expensive for a sharpie design. Basically you start with what you want to do with the boat - that is what determines the size of the boat (pulling a length out of thin air is almost useless) - she will be whatever size she needs to be to enclose all that you want her to do...figuring that out is the real task at hand.
     
  12. gouloozeyachts
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: south africa

    gouloozeyachts Junior Member

    Zoomee.

    Search the second hand yacht market and try to find a yacht, which should have: (to satisfy your personal requirements) or can be adapted to:
    1* A retractable bulb- or wing keel as shown in of our attached thumbnails.

    2* A low-gravity mast (‘low’ having a double meaning). See our attached photo of a tapered mast for a 34-foot yacht and our article ‘The ultimate spar’

    3* A retractable rudder in a drum.

    Your second hand choice should have:

    4* A wooden hull in round bilge (cold-moulded ply) because a compound curvature is stronger and lighter than a single curvature (plywood). Cold moulded ply method is the most forgiving building method if the skin is sheathed in GRP afterwards.

    5* All wood should be pre-treated with an anti-rot preserve.

    6* this thin walled skin should be backed up by numerous permanent (laminated) ribs and ‘petit’ stringers. See our attached thumbnail of out 40 ft slim ULDB.

    7* Water ballast tanks for a small amount of water. The rule is that the water on one side should not heel the yacht more than 10 deg when moored. If you want to sail in shallow water with the keel retracted, the water volume should not be that much otherwise; you will heel towards the weather side.

    Good luck

    Marinus Goulooze

    T/F 027 44 695 1881
     

  13. gouloozeyachts
    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 26
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    Location: south africa

    gouloozeyachts Junior Member

    Zoomee.

    Search the second hand yacht market and try to find a yacht, which should have: (to satisfy your personal requirements) or can be adapted to:
    1* A retractable bulb- or wing keel as shown in of our attached thumbnails.

    2* A low-gravity mast (‘low’ having a double meaning). See our attached photo of a tapered mast for a 34-foot yacht and our article ‘The ultimate spar’

    3* A retractable rudder in a drum.

    Your second hand choice should have:

    4* A wooden hull in round bilge (cold-moulded ply) because a compound curvature is stronger and lighter than a single curvature (plywood). Cold moulded ply method is the most forgiving building method if the skin is sheathed in GRP afterwards.

    5* All wood should be pre-treated with an anti-rot preserve.

    6* this thin walled skin should be backed up by numerous permanent (laminated) ribs and ‘petit’ stringers. See our attached thumbnail of out 40 ft slim ULDB.

    7* Water ballast tanks for a small amount of water. The rule is that the water on one side should not heel the yacht more than 10 deg when moored. If you want to sail in shallow water with the keel retracted, the water volume should not be that much otherwise; you will heel towards the weather side.

    Good luck

    Marinus Goulooze

    T/F 027 44 695 1881
     

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