Hartley boats

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kharee, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. kharee
    Joined: May 2006
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    Location: memphis

    kharee Junior Member

    I always hear Hartley plans referred to as old and over built. I grant that they may be old. I purchased plans for the Hartley 28 . Considering that this boat is intended for ocean cruising I don't see the over build. For plank on frame or plywood on frame construction the Hartley seems middle of the road as far as scantlings go.

    I am out of town and cannot check my " Gerr on boat strength", but 3"x1.25" frames does not seem over built. 2.25" floor timbers don't seem over built. 2.5"x3" laminated frames don't seem over built. Two layers of 1/4' plywood planking seems only adequate.

    I don't wish to build a floating fort in the manner of Herr Buehler but I do wish to feel my boat is adequate for serious conditions. I prefer to be the weak link not my boat.

    Could anyone opine on this issue of Hartleys being over built? I bought a couple of acres and the plans for the Hartley 28. I am studying the plans. Maybe I will start to build next spring. Right now I am looking at a Grizzly band saw . I gave my tools away in 2007. I must regroup on tools.
  2. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    I'm not familiar with the Hartley 28, but as for his runabouts & trailer sailers they seem pretty good, its a matter of perspective & expression, "old and over built" can be "enduring & strong". Hartleys were popular in AUS, My Dad built a TS 16 in the 60s after watching a TV series that Chronicled the construction, some great childhood memories from sailing & crabbing on that boat. Jeff.
  3. kharee
    Joined: May 2006
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    Location: memphis

    kharee Junior Member

    Hartley 28

    My dad also built a boat in the sixties. He taught wood shop and auto mechanics. He built it in the school workshop.

    It was a Glen-L design. A 19 or 20ft' cabin cruiser. The blue Glen-L book on plywood construction was around the house for years. He started on a larger design in steel after he retired but gave up and sold the motor and all the steel.

    He learned the hard way and I learned from him to stay in the building medium in which you are best and most comfortable. Being house builders that was and is wood.

    For years the Paris,TN Catfish Festival borrowed our boat to use as a float for the fish fry parade.We did a lot of fishing,drinking and partying on that boat. Dad's gone but the memories float on down memory lane
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Compared to modern building methods, yes, the old school plywood over frames builds are unnecessarily complex and heavy. For example, a modern taped seam build of the same boat would eliminate most if not all of the frames and the structural floors and most of the stringers too.

    This makes the BOM considerably smaller and you're not behind the table saw as long either, milling up stock for all these parts. Additionally, you don't have to install these pieces, saving time, though a lot of the time savings is eaten up with a considerably high "goo factor", which a plywood over frame build isn't as encumbered with.

    As this aside, this Hartley is a great little yacht. It's not very modern looking, nor especially impressive in preformance, but as an ocean cruiser, you could do much worse. Given some styling upgrades, maybe some appendage modifications and a spruced up rig, you could hold your own with a modern cruiser.

    You'll find a table saw and a compound miter saw more useful then a band saw on that build. Grizzly makes a tool that is much more then you'll need and they charge for it as well. You could get by with a Harbor Freight set of tools and save a bunch of money. You could probably built 2 or 3 Hartley 28's with them, before they gave out, though the Grizzly would likely outlive you, given some new brushes and bearings as they wore out.

    Geer's boat strength scantling figures will be right in line with the way a Hartley 28 is spec'd out. Those scantlings generally develop "wholesome" vessels, which the Hartley certainly is. Not overly heavy, but surely heavier then needed, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in an off shore yacht.

  5. kharee
    Joined: May 2006
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    Location: memphis

    kharee Junior Member

    Hello Par. Gerr is the "man". Not the only man in the design business but his body of work and accomplishments are awesome. I have all his books. I like what I have seen of your work also.

    Looking at the low rate of completion for home builders I chose the 28 as the smallest, simplest basic design with cruising capability for my dream. The least investment of time and money. I am retired and have more time than money.

    You are so right about the tools. For a one time build low price tools will suffice. Harbor Freight is the ticket.

    As a old house builder I know it's not the start but the finishing out to turn key stage that is tough. And that's while getting paid! Working on your on with money going out, none coming in, getting tired not to mention health issues makes finishing a boat project "iffy" to say the least.

    Just thinking of what it takes to get a project this size started gives me butterflies in my stomach wondering if I will be able to finish the job.

    Your point is well taken about stitch and glue as opposed to plank on frame construction. Less work all around. I have health issues which makes speed and efficiency of the utmost importance if I am to finish a boat. I will be looking at s&g designs. It's hard to get over the thought that a glued up boat might come apart under your feet. Old timers syndrome!

    Your thoughts are well received and appreciated. Thanks.
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