Had my old boat scanned

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by CC Guy, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I was just reading a Wired magazine, Oct 2011, page 68. which talks about FREE software to stitch together 2D photos into a 3D model. required no targets, used a digital camera (not special).
    Apparently it has some issues with "monochrome surfaces, reflective and translucent objects". It also has limitations on precision, which might be expected.
    Autodesk's Photofly desktop app.
    Looks like the comments about the technology "exploding" and becomming cheaper are certainly true, even if this particular app is not yet good enough for use to use on boats.

    Has anyone used "Photofly"? (I would like the walk around "Video Camera" with its apparent precision).

    Marc
     
  2. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    OK, I'm impressed. Of course, I'm easy. I thought it was amazing the first time I saw a mechanic at the compressor station where I work identify a 'hot' valve by pointing what looked like a timing gun at it....

    Sometimes I feel like Alley Oop at a technology fair. And it doesn't help to know that a substantial number of those reading this will have no idea who or what Alley Oop was....
     
  3. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    upchurch, I haven't used Photofly, but AutoDesk has made Revit

    (their parametric architecture CAD suite) FREE for Student Lic. !!!!

    I just downloaded it and I'm installing as we speak.

    Website had "will expire in 30 days OR do you want FREE registration codes, etc.

    I'm starting a Revit class tomorrow. I'll ask about Photofly.

    You might need to be a "registered student" at some semi-real college to get the free Revit and other Autocad, or maybe not, I can't remember.
     
  4. CC Guy
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    CC Guy Junior Member

    Hi guys,

    I'm no expert on this all I did was think do I really won't to spend days drawing this up,so just did a google search and went from there,I was a bit sceptical myself, as he lives close he popped round and did a test as he was interested to see how it would turn out, the picture is of him doing the test.
    I have set the boat up on its side so its easy to walk along to scan,yes he has to stick markers on for his scan gun as its a few years old now but said they also have new ones that don't need any to scan but are slightly less accurate.
    He has said if I leave the markers on he can come back and rescan any parts that may be missed and mesh it into the original files, the scan files are lots of meg far to big for our cadcam.

    I'm a woodworker by trade but not a boat builder....now one for the experts here, as I said to build up the hull he mirrored one side to the other he found it to be off by 1/2 inch (one side of the hull was lower than the other) was this just how it was back in the day 1957 or was it extra hook to make her run flat with only the driver?
    Its a 16ft Ski boat double planked running a gray-marine fathead 6, 136 hp flywheel forward.

    The scanning guy is real easy to talk too, I think he likes old boat too, he is in his late 50's and has taken this on after leaving our MOD he can take it on a plane as he calls it a digitizing camera Not a laser device, so all you guys in sunny parts of the world he would look at as winter is on its way here.

    As for cost I did a deal with him scan and cad files under £500 I think he did a great job of it and he got a bit carried away, but good work always brings more.

    Here is a link to his site http://www.3d-laserscanning.co.uk/index.html

    Some pictures of the test scan
    DSC02370.jpg

    test1_01.jpg

    test1_02.jpg

    test1_03.jpg
     
  5. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    A related thread here too:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/general-computing/scanner-37311.html

    I've only seen the fixed LIDAR type scanners used and they are quite fast, the limited depth of field for these hand held devices would make for a long process. If you stitch together numerous scans I'm not sure how time consuming ensuring accurate registration would be.
     
  6. erik818
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    erik818 Senior Member

    Through my work I came with a system that keeps track of a persons head in all six degrees of freedom (x, y, z, yaw, pitch, tilt). The system used a camera (or several, I don't remember) on the head and more or less randomly located light dots in the ceiling. The camera(s) and the light dots were quite simple. The software was not. I would guess that the boat scanning system discussed in this thread is something similar, and that stitching of the images is performed automatically by the software.

    With two cameras with a fixed distance between the apertures all information will be available for measuring a hull using objects with contrast on the hull. Maybe one camera that is moving will also work. All it takes is a computer and a hacker with lots of time. The dots are for providing high contrast objects to make the image processing easier.

    Erik
     
  7. ACuttle
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    ACuttle Marine Design Engineer

    With my previous employer we worked on a pretty good range of projects:
    http://www.djaweb.co.uk/index.php/user-stories/marine/83-hms-victory
    http://www.djaweb.co.uk/index.php/user-stories/marine/75-yacht-hull-fairing
    http://www.djaweb.co.uk/index.php/user-stories/marine/68-19m-trawler
    http://www.djaweb.co.uk/index.php/user-stories/marine/56-65-tug

    Which covered historical recording to reverse engineering. I don't think there is much danger of anyone using a scanner to steal designs, anything you could do with a scanner you could do with any other method and at the end of the day you're only capturing hullforms. They're not very subtle either so no-one is going to be doing it on the sly.

    Ballpark figures for accuracy are 1-10mm for laser systems and <1mm for photogrammetry, I worked with people doing some of the QC for the Type 45's and they were down to nano-meters for sonar mounts and similar. Reflective surfaces tend to cause a major drop off in accuracy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  8. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Drew,

    Thanks for the information, it is actually a little larger tolerance than we required for Aircraft work. There clearly is the possibility to get closer tolerances over a smaller area, that's just not generally the point of this threads perspective.
    Overall, your report matches what I have experienced. The new hand held scanner is outside of my experience.

    Marc
     
  9. lumberjack_jeff
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    lumberjack_jeff Sawdust sweeper

    Kinect and Wii-Motes

    Hackers are very close to doing this with consumer electronics.

    I see .5mm accuracy of house-scale objects using open source software leveraging $200 worth of consumer electronics within two years.

    The most challenging part is integrating the individual scans (inside and out) into a coherent model.

    http://vimeo.com/28237890
     
  10. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Software is currently available from a number of sources to match photos and generate a cloud of 3D points. PhotoModeler Scanner is an example of sofware which can be purchased. http://www.photomodeler.com/products/pm-scanner.htm

    There are also services which will do the computations ont their computers using photos supplied.

    The major limitation of these methods is the necessity for a surface with a relatively detailed, random "texture". They don't work with monocolor, glossy, smooth and/or translucent surfaces. (Note that "texture" is used here in the sense used in the 3D visualization community, the color and brightness of the surface, not the geometry of the surface.)

    The original post was for a system which uses a laser and two cameras which works with a wider variety of surfaces.
     
  11. Joe Petrich
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    Joe Petrich Designer

    We have used fixed scanners to document our hull molds for years. They really come in handy when you need data on a mold which was built pre-computer/NC using hand lofting and fairing, or when modifying any existing mold to get 'as built' dimensions. We use outside providers for the work and receive point cloud, polygon mesh, and NURBS surfaces as deliverables. The accuracy is well within anything required for boat building.

    For small jobs we use a photogrammetry program which runs as a plug-in for our 3D program.
     
  12. CC Guy
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    CC Guy Junior Member

    Hi Guys, thanks for posting your views on scanning,will keep you posted on how accurate it is when I cnc the new and try it against the old :)
    This is how I set the hull up and the scan was done with all the supports in, then deleted from the scan/3D cad.
    start_081.jpg

    start_080.jpg

    It was a bit tight to get her into the spot I'm going to work in :) no scan for this just a stick of inches and I now Know it fits through a 3ft 1/2in opening ;)

    start_056.jpg
     
  13. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Wow!!
     
  14. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    CC Guy,

    Can you tell us the reason you picked this particular Boat? Designer, Builder, or specific model? Obviously you were really interested in this boat with all the trouble you have gone thru.

    Marc
     

  15. CC Guy
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    CC Guy Junior Member

    HI Marc, the boat is not that a well regarded in the USA as it was made by Correct Craft compared to other US brands but this model was only made for 2 years and only a few remain.

    The boat is of its time and make me smile, I was told it was chalked out full size like most of there boat by W C Meloon in the loft of the factory.
    The company is still going strong with the family still involved had the pleasure of meeting one of the founders sons this year he is in his 90's and gave a talk about how they made boats for the war effort.

    The boat I have is called a Star Flite its only 16ft and came with a flat head 6 gray or Y block V8 a good friend built me a Y block and shipped it over to the UK as I was told that the 6 pot was shot, well I managed to free it up and it ran after years of being seized up so now I have 2 engines.

    Here are some pictures of one in the US I hope I can match it over here :cool:
    STARFLITE_1.jpg

    STARFLITE_3.jpg
     
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