Green or bio based epoxy suppliers

Discussion in 'Materials' started by rob denney, May 23, 2022.

  1. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 839
    Likes: 221, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    A couple of years ago, I was in the Marshall Islands teaching the locals to build 7.2m/24' mini cargo proas from ply/epoxy.

    I am now at the Centre for Appropriate Technology and Development (CATD) in Fiji to assemble and launch the prototype 24m/80' version. We have been asked to come up with a version of the mini cargo proa which is suitable for fishing and near shore transport here. The students at CATD will build one, then return to their villages with enough knowledge to build more.

    The design is as simple as we can make it, using foam, fibreglass and epoxy resin. Won't rot, easily built and repaired, lighter than ply.

    I would like to use bio based epoxy and recycled PET foam. Anyone with any knowledge, experience or names of suppliers, please let me know.


    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
  2. Flotation
    Joined: Jan 2020
    Posts: 56
    Likes: 18, Points: 8
    Location: Canada

    Flotation Junior Member

  3. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 2,806
    Likes: 487, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    I'm not as up to date on Bio, or Eco friendly epoxies, but many resins of all types that are labeled this way tend to use the smoke and mirrors method to achieve this type of label.

    Taking a plant based raw material and converting it to a specific chemical to make a resin results in the exact same toxic (or not) chemical that you need to make the final resin anyhow, assuming you want the same quality.

    Plus, many chemicals used to make resins are byproducts of other refining methods, so they are using existing chemicals that are relatively cheap and may be considered hazardous waste if they don't reenter the manufacturing process as a raw material for something else.

    There was a big push in the polyester resin industry to market Bio resins, instead of using existing sources of glycols (some were byproducts), they used corn to produce them.

    It cost more, eliminated recycling of existing glycols, and was no better for the environment.

    The impression was that the Bio resin was a safer and better product for the environment, but it was the opposite. It only provided the marketing dept with an new add campaign.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
  4. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 6,188
    Likes: 1,241, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

  5. Kayakmarathon
    Joined: Sep 2014
    Posts: 93
    Likes: 37, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: NewEngland

    Kayakmarathon Junior Member

    Let someone else be the test subject for new technology. You would feel pretty bad if people lost their lives because someone else's claims were not backed up by real life longevity testing.
     
  6. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 839
    Likes: 221, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Australia

    rob denney Senior Member

    Thanks for the replies.
    Flotation,
    I have suggested a joint venture approach with Greenboats. Failing that, what they can help with in materials.
    Ondarvr,
    Maybe, but we have to start somewhere. Part of the plans for the Fijian production facility is an innovation, test and verification centre. Maybe we can make a start on eliminating the hype.
    Fallguy,
    Thanks. I filled in their online enquiry form. No response. Phoned them, they were closed for a company meeting. I will keep trying. I filled in the form for Armacell (recycled PET foam), they responded immediately.
    Kayakmarathon,
    The requirements for zero emissions, low cost, regular servicing of remote villages require a boat that is different to anything yet designed. Arguably, the entire boat is an experiment. Hence the plan for protracted sea trials, not carrying passengers and generally ramping testing up slowly and thoroughly. Anything new that can be tested (ie resin) will be.

    Please keep the suggestions and information coming.
     
    Flotation likes this.
  7. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 6,188
    Likes: 1,241, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Don't you hate when someone has a website and you contact them to no avail?

    If Gougeon acquired them as it says; it would seem to me the product is legit.
     
  8. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 2,806
    Likes: 487, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    The product can be legit and good and still not be as eco friendly as claimed even though they've checked all the right marketing boxes.

    I Sold and did tech service on these types of resins in the past.

    It's great PR for a situation like the OP is discussing, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way when you only get part of the story.
     
    fallguy likes this.

  9. Flotation
    Joined: Jan 2020
    Posts: 56
    Likes: 18, Points: 8
    Location: Canada

    Flotation Junior Member

    There is more to boatbuilding than just the resins. There are also developments to replace materials like certain types wood, core materials, fibers and decking with the most sustainable options possible. Green-boats.de is one of the companies doing research in those directions.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.