Global Warming? are humans to blame?

We're just political opposites, I guess.

I like the idea of a strange new fruit:
http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/2009/02/monsanto-fruit.html
and you want to bring back the old type:
http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/02/strange-fruit.html

 

the thread hasn't got anything to do with politics. Its the simple science of climate change. Very basic actually, at least to anyone with a basic understanding of physics

 

In a pig's eye. This thread is all about who holds the reins of power in this country. I will oppose you to the end of my time here in this Vale of Sorrow.

 

Hmm, the harbour has been full of Amberjack for a week. Thousands of them, stacked up like cordwood. These are summer and fall fish.

Hmm

 

I'm astounded! This is a thread that started in 2006. For me, it's still readable, because Boston has been on my ignore list for ages. It's worth doing that, because he's just a troll and erasing him has been most efficacious.

Plant breeding is about eugenically modifying crops, perhaps a technique we should apply to our own species, otherwise there will be a continued regression to the mean. Climate cycles should not be too much bother for humanity unless we're really headed towards another period of glacial advance, in which case not even a Cnut can save us.

As for those CAGW mongrels in Durban, who've had two weeks living it up at taxpayer expense? They have been discussing how they can punish & impoverish humanity for simply existing. I'd deal with them as Edward Vl's army dealt with Robert Kett. After his capture, he was tortured then hanged slowly over a number of days at Norwich Castle as an example to the people of the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kett's_Rebellion

It does me good to read these insincere mewlings of the watermelons. May they live forever in despair & despondency. Curse them to Hades.

Samantha Smith, of WWF International, said the compromise had watered down the deal to such an extent it became almost meaningless.

"They haven't reached a real deal," she said. "They watered things down so everyone could get on board."

Celine Charveriat, Director of Campaigns and Advocacy for Oxfam, said the world is “sleepwalking towards 4C”, where millions of people will be displaced by floods and drought.

What did you expect, you ugly, thieving, scum sucking mongrels?

 

And there you have it. To some, global warming is simply about science.

Others see a vast global conspiracy and ignore all observations being presented, because they believe that almost every scientist in the world is "on the take" and conspiring with secret world-wide shadowy masters who somehow see in this a way to maintain their nefarious power.

Take your pick.

Ray

In reply to:


Originally Posted by Boston
the thread hasn't got anything to do with politics. Its the simple science of climate change. Very basic actually, at least to anyone with a basic understanding of physics

 

There is substantial politics within the global warming issue. Its all about MONEY. Specifically the anticipation of vast transfers of money from the rich world ..polluters... to the developing world. Durban is on right now and every developing country is on station with its hand out

 

My favorite part is there's not a viable argument among the lot of them, just the same ole senseless and senile rambling about conspiracies and politicians, and how there must be some demented form of religion involved. Couldn't possibly refute the science so they cling to every other angle imaginable and deny that the science says otherwise.

The simple size and shape of the CO2 molecule is what dictates its ability to reflect wavelengths synonymous with certain forms of heat. Its basic physics.

The ideal gas law mandates that the quantity of water vapor held in the atmosphere be determined by the temperature of that atmosphere. The shape of a water molecule makes it a poor reflector of certain wave lengths which we feel as heat.

Result, CO2 is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, water vapor is a feedback and does not drive temp as some deniers would have you believe. All the gasses of the atmosphere play some role in determining how much heat is radiated back into space. But the size and shape of there molecules determines if one is a forcing agent or a feedback. CO2 is the primary forcing agent, next would be methane. Water vapor is a feedback having comparatively poor reflective qualities.

Note to the readers, watch the deniers come back with religion, politics, economics, conspiracies, and a few pathetic jabs thrown in for good measure. But also notice how they either blindly deny the science, or ignore it completely. Then ask yourself why. Why not refute the physics of CO2 if it wasn't true. And why not refute the gas laws if they're flawed as well. If the science is so wrong then why not prove it so and enlighten the world. Rather than resort to cheap taunts and distractions while declaring ones undying denial.

Its simple

You aint going to learn
what you don't want to know

cheers
B

Michael,
the politicians are just jumping on the public's back like they always do. Taking a very real issue and finding a way to sucker even more money out of the people. I don't agree with carbon credits at all. I don't agree with the taxation process the politicians have invented for carbon or for anything else for that mater. But it doesn't mean there isn't an issue. It doesn't mean we haven't had a 2°C rise in temps since 1800, and it doesn't mean we're not on track for another 2°C rise by about 2045. Nor does the actions of some crooked politicians preclude the fact a temp rise of 4°C over ~1m years back in the high Permian extinction triggered the release of organic carbons and ended up killing off everything down to 2lbs. Gave the dinosaurs a chance to take over for a while. Just because some fool politician has found another way to scam money off a public concern doesn't mean that concerns not valid. It just means the politicians are scum and should be dragged out and shot for failing the public trust.

By the way each mas extinction was preceded by rapid alterations in the atmospheric chemistry, or at least each one thats been studied so far. The rate of those changes seems to determine the level of extinction as measured by the weight of what survived, typically the more sever the event the smaller the creatures that tend to survive. Now here's the spooky part, we are changing the atmospheric chemistry about 4000 times faster that what happened in the high Permian extinction, where everything down to a couple of pounds died off. The science isn't political, its a discovery of the history of how things work.

The politicians are just doing what politicians have been doing since the beginning of politics, scamming more money out of the public on the back of any excuse they can think of no mater if that excuse is real or not. Its just what they do. Don't let a perfectly sound theory go the way of the Dodo simply because some scumbag politicians uses it to further line there own pockets.

cheers
B

 

Boston the whole essence of this thread is "could or would anything revolutionary and beneficial for mankind" ever see the light of day if people of influence and power are somehow denied the opportunity to tax or impose fees upon the people for it's distribution or use??

Posting this as an example not saying this is real or not but many of Tesla's Ideas were well really revolutionary especially for his time and an interesting read.

But it all basically comes around to the same thing "money" and if monied interests are unable to profit somehow despite how beneficial a technology may be for both mankind and the environment it will be ultimately shelved somewhere and forgotten.

 

not sure how you got that out of "global warming, are humans to blame" but I get what your saying and the concept does have merit, I've tried to keep the thread on track as much as possible simply because some folks use the various peripheral issues to distract from or deny the science. Which is really really clear on this one. Its undoubtedly the fault of humans.

What people are going to do about it is a whole other issue, thats got no chance at all if we can't at least all agree on the obvious. Burning fossil fuels undoubtedly caused Rapid GLobal Climate Shift. Its about the no brainer of all no brainers but look at the pole at the top of the page and tell me that agnotology isn't alive and well. Thats the real issue. The disinformation campaign, which while I kinda enjoy a nice round of find the flaw from time to time should be criminal.

 

Unfortunately, science has been turned into just another political football by partisan wingnuts.

Opposition to the evidence of climate change is being pushed by the same ignoramuses who fight for religious purity by denying evolution, moral purity by explaining that gays like other men instead of women simply because they've chosen to, and economic purity by saying poverty is simply proof of people being stupid and lazy.

Good luck trying to change any minds in that crowd....

 

I know Troy but as you probably already know most of what I write on here isn't in an effort to convince any of the deniers of anything, but instead so the readers don't get confused by some quacks pseudoscience and phony reasoning. It just wouldn't do to have such a great site sullied by false information. Global warming is very real, and its obviously caused by man burning fossil fuels.

I'm pretty sure once a denier always a denier, its kinda like a religion to them.

 

That's a good thing, 'cause it ain't workin'.

 

Things are getting much worse than the most dire predictions of the past few decades: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...-bubbling-surface-arctic-ocean-163804179.html

"Russian scientists have discovered hundreds of plumes of methane gas, some 1,000 meters in diameter, bubbling to the surface of the Arctic Ocean. Scientists are concerned that as the Arctic Shelf recedes, the unprecedented levels of gas released could greatly accelerate global climate change."

 

and well they should be, thats the organic carbon that gets destabilized by the initial temp increase. Its the wild card of all wild cards. Once that material is destabilized and comes out of solution its game over.