Global Warming? are humans to blame?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by hansp77, Sep 11, 2006.

?

Do you believe

  1. Global Warming is occuring as a direct result of Human Activity.

    106 vote(s)
    51.7%
  2. IF Gloabal Warming is occurring it is as a result of Non-Human or Natural Processes.

    99 vote(s)
    48.3%
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  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    actually now that I'm almost done with the summers truck project I'll be moving on to build a heater for the house that runs on alternative fuels as well. I'm thinking a pyrolysis system so I can use tires and oils and stuff like that. Only glitch is the tire shredder is kinda pricey, might have to make one of those as well.

    third start up, runs like a top, just trying to dial it in for the altitude and lower my emissions. When I ran it before the rebuild on veggie oil it didn't smoke at all, but veggie oil is kinda hard to come buy as everyone wants it for BIO Diesel.
    http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/bostonpyramidbuilder/?action=view&current=DSCN0256.mp4

    This is my truck now that I've got most of it done. I'm just dialing it in as its running on used motor oil. I'm trying to tune it so it quits smoking but my mechanic friends say at idle its just going to smoke some. But if you notice I've got it to quit at higher RPM's. Anyway the whole thing was kinda an experiment so that when I finally do get to the boat build I've got an alternative fuel source I can run instead of the high dollar sludge they sell at the dock. The 200 gallon tank is even designed to come out of the truck and drop into whatever. I just need to rebuild it in aluminum this time instead of steel. Tank alone weighs about 500lbs in this thing.
     
  2. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Quitting smoking is always hard. :)

    To stop blowing smoke is darn near impossible.
     
  3. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Ancient Dude,

    This is a real opportunity. Greenland was prime farm land in the 13- 1400's.

    Its comming again, get your claim in now if you believe that we have global warming - of course that's not the question, global warming is a periodic natural thing proven by the ice ages and the between times "warming".

    You guys are just looking at this in the "half empty" mode, not "half full".

    There will be plenty of opportunity for those with courage.

    Who wants to live in the Sahara even now? Of course they dig up fossils of animals who lived in moderate temperature in the middle of the Sahara. I suppose you could plan farther ahead to the Ice age to come - lets form a land speculation company and sell 1 acre lots!

    Canada will be the new bread basket. And northern Russia (if there is any place not severly polluted). The only problem is that those with prime ocean front want to some how keep their benefits, not adapt like people have long before we learned to spell.

    Think of the new sailing areas north of Canada and Russia! You guys ought to be chearing. Who's going to be first? I wonder if some sailor will find gold in some long ice locked area? You know there is suppose to be diamonds in some of the rock formations in Canada- hard to dig out with the current winters.

     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    sorry mate but thats a really tired old argument that's miles from accurate.

    we've been over it about ten times already but if you really want to dredge it up again then I suppose

    [​IMG]

    OK please show us the natural variation
     
  5. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    The population of the entire Earth was less than 400 million in 1400 AD.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Those scales always start at a convenient time. Why don't you start in the Carboniferous era? It will show a cooling of the Earth.
     
  7. RayThackeray
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    Location: Alameda, CA, USA

    RayThackeray Senior Member

    Oh dear. Where do people get this stuff?

    It looks like you bought into a myth that's hundreds of years old. Amazing how some people can be taken in for centuries! You need to read and learn something about Erik the Red, who perpetrated a scam on his fellow Norsemen to get them to migrate to a place he named Greenland because it made the freezing hole sound nice. They mostly died due to their testicles freezing off (together with starvation).

    Science shows us, however, that Greenland has been under an ice sheet for between 400,000 to 800,000 years - now melting frighteningly rapidly.
     
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    But it was tropical 300 million years ago. There are tree fossils that are much more recent than 800,000 years too. Erik's well known scam notwithstanding.
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    OK lets do that

    first lets consider that the carboniferous period was just after the Permian or roughly 350 to about 290 million years ago. The high Permian extinction event had just occurred due to a rapid global climate shift and we were left with a very warm atmosphere that had just killed off everything down to about 2 lbs. High levels of CO2 CH4 and the accompanying high temps. The event occurred over about a million year period of time during which the Siberian Trap increased atmospheric CO2 sufficiently to increase average temps by about 4 degrees over about a 1 million year period of time ( we are on track to do the same in about 250 years time, or by about 2050.) This released organic carbon like CH4 hydrate which increased the average temps by about another 5~6 degrees over about another 40k year period of time. which killed everything off, or nearly so.

    Then we get to the carboniferous era, which is called the carboniferous era because its a period of time we get so much coal and oil from. Why you might ask. Because everything had just died and was now deposited in what we know call oil shale and tar deposits. As well as oil fields. Gradually over a very long period of time the excess organic carbon reduced to equilibrium. And temps fell.

    There are few studies done of the ancient paleo climate but one that does get a lot of play is this one. Its off a web site called Junk Science, which is a really apt name for it. The graph is a composite of one reasonably robust study and another extremely sketchy study that one could interpret pretty much any way you might want.

    [​IMG]

    so I'm curious where you might have found your info about temp and CO2 cause this is about the most popular study and its been analyzed about five times on just this site alone and every time it can be shown that no definitive conclusions could be drawn from it.

    Firstly one of the two data sets is detrended to fit over the other

    secondly one of the two data sets is so sporadic that the polynomial fit shown in the graph could in fact be drawn anywhere within a margin of error that encompass most of the graphs parameters. IE you might as well just draw one big fat line the entire height of the graph as draw just one line the margin of error is so huge.

    anyway I'm happy to discuss the temp records over any period of time but lets stick to robust science rather than sketchy at best records.

    The graph I posted depicts a very well understood time frame during the interglacial period. Accurate records have been developed that go back about a million years. But beyond that it get a bit sketchier.
     
  10. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    There goes that stick with hockey on the end, again.
     
  11. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Don't worry. We'll get there again. But you won't like how they do it.
     
  12. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  13. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Save your CO2, B.
     
  14. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Gonzo: I suppose we could go back 4 billion years or so with start with the formation of the Earth or 10 billions years further back to the Big Bang and the start of the universe, but I don't really see the point.

    It may be selfish but a lot of us are humans on this forum, so we're not really interested in conditions that are not suitable to our species, such as prevailed during the Carboniferous era. The sapients - as we like to call ourselves - only emerged about 400,000 years ago, and Boston's chart covers that period nicely. This seems entirely appropriate when considering measures to preserve the Earth the way we like it, which seems to suits us. I do believe that is the whole point of the global warming debate.

    Hoyte: I gotta love the way a confirmed skeptic makes my point better than I did! Thanks!
     

  15. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    that graph wasn't Mans hockey stick Hoyt.

    didn't even resemble a hockey stick

    earth to Hoyt
    earth to Hoyt

    are you there
     
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