Global Warming? are humans to blame?

How do you define FREEDOM?
Freedom of choice in YOUR life?
Or freedom to control other peoples lives?

 

How about Freedom from others degrading my quality of life?
Do you believe your neighbor should be free to pollute your water supply by polluting the water that flows under his ground to yours?
Should your neighbor be free to put in a development and dump waste into the water even if it results in your beach becoming full of sludge and algae where there was clean water?

 

If you make laws to control me and force me to accept and live according to YOUR beliefs?
I swear a solemn oath. We who feel abused, will Also make laws to control YOU and force you to live according to some of OUR beliefs. As Vengeance!
And NONE of us will be free.
It's freedom for ALL, or NONE! Carefull how you chose!

 

OK, so you do believe you have no right to be free from your neighbor doing whatever he wants, no matter how his action affects you or your property?

 

Local issues are for local laws. Your next door neighbor is part of your local community. Settle your problem with community laws or negotiation. If you make Federal law for everybody in the US just to settle your local squabble, you WILL regret it!
Other local issues will ALSO become Fed law. You won't be able to blow your nose without a federal permit!

 

How do you feel if the development is not local but the water current brings another guy's pollution down where it washes up onto your beach until your property is impacted by his dumping?

 

Let me ask YOU a theoretical question. Do you think all of lifes problems have solutions? And do you think big government can be the instrument to create those solutions?

 

No and sometimes is my answer to those questions.
I don't like overregulation at all, but I'm glad my neighbors aren't free to do whatever they want no matter what the consequence or some would ruin my groundwater and pollute the water and ruin my beach with their selfishness "make a buck today, who cares what happens tomorrow" attitude.

 

Ok. IF?
If an upstream neighbor sprayed his yard with a herbicide or insectiside. And he didn't observe the requirement to stay 50 meters or more from the water edge, and he caused a fish kill. Now your beach is full of stinking dead fish. What do you do?

No idea?

Ok. I'll tell you what we did. We called a meeting of all the land owners along the affected area. We pretty much knew the guilty party, because there wasn't any dead fish on the banks upstream, above his place. We particularly invited him.
We discussed bringing in state wildlife and state epa officials. Instead we agreed to form a homeowners association. We invited other owners further up and down river. In the association articles, we gave the association authority to investigate future fish kills and other polution problems. The association had authority to clean up, and bill offenders for the clean up cost. Also had authority to sue on behalf of the owners. also, agreed to monthly meetings, in a different owners waterfront each month. The meetings had 4 items of business. News of laws, politics, topics, ect of mutual concern. education in river friendly yard maintenance products and practice. socializing, and electing who was hosting next months meeting.
Result! No more fish kills. A great community of friends and saavy owners. And NO government intervention. We settled it ourselves.

 

As the world becomes more and more populated, and as resources become less and less available, our survival will depend on our willingness to trade some/many of our individual freedoms in return for rules/laws/regulations that will benefit the many. That will include managing public resources, like clean air, clean water, fisheries, croplands, and (surprise, surprise!) climate control. The only way we can manage such national and international challenges is through national and international cooperation -- i.e. big government.

You may not like it, but our futures depends on our figuring out a way to get along with each other even when we disagree. The current polarization in our government between the extreme left and the extreme right is exactly the wrong way to solve our long-term problems.

President Obama has tried very hard to compromise with the Republicans. And the Republicans have been exceptionally obdurate in their rebuffing anything that would reflect well on Obama, to the point where they are willing to cut off their(our) nose to spite their(our) face.

These last few decades under either Republican control or Republican obstructionism has been profoundly discouraging for my hopes of long-term global peace and prosperity.

 

Imagine
I believe you are sincere, but collectivism is NOT and NEVER has been the answer.
You think it's inevitable, we need to surender personal freedom to the common good. That WILL not happen without civil war. Or even after, I'd hope! Of COURSE the conservatives are obdurate. We aren't surendering to socialism. I'm not republican but I believe in the republic. I'm a strict constructionist! That means I believe the government ONLY has those specific powers outlined in the constitution. The government has NO authority to claim addittional powers not mentioned in the constitution.
I'm more conservative than republicans.

 

What do you do when some landowners upstream decide they want FREEDOM and don't want the association to control them whether or not their runoff is killing the fish for everyone? Some will argue the association has an ecoomic agenda and therefore their findings are probably bogus

I like this workable solution. When local control works, I'm all for it over big out of touch government. However, if the problem is larger scale, what do you do?

 

Congratulations! Sincerely.

What you did on a local level is what we also need to do on a national and international level. That's what the international community is trying to do concerning global warming. Unfortunately, some of the biggest polluters either won't come to the "land owners" meeting, or when they do come they claim either that there is no problem, or that if there is a problem it can't possibly have been caused by them -- even when there is considerable evidence to the contrary.

What solutions would your homeowners association recommend in such a situation?

 

Don't be silly. I can give counterexamples until I get blue in the face (which is what I feel like every time I write to you --

Do you stop at a red lite or a green light
Do you drive on the left side of the road or the right.
Can you drive on the road or can you drive on your neighbors property
Can you carry a gun openly in church (without at least being ostracized)
Can you burn brush in a city without a permit
Can you board an airplane without showing proper ID
Can you enter another country without proper documents
Can you kill a marine animal in the US

Of course we have, and will continue, to give up our individual freedoms in exchange for a more smoothly working society. Sometimes we have to let the old-guard die before we can implement what the younger generation already feels comfortable with.

Sometimes, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Don't be part of the problem

 

Well, first you have to get your facts straight! LOL
Be honest! Manmade global catastrophic warming is neither honest nor believable.
Ya'll do a TERRIBLE sales pitch! I'll tell you WHY you generate strong resistence.

First! Haste! Never mind that the predictions won't be verified for 50 or 100 years. We need action NOW. Just TRUST us! Or it's TOO late!
Sorry! If that's the case? Then it's TOO late already, because we will NOT be stampeded!

Second. If we don't agree with your doctrine, we are stupid! or a SHILL! or a heretic, or selfish!
I've been leading men for 40+ years. Do you REALLY believe, the best way to gain anybodies co-operation, is by yelling, threatening, and calling names? That is NOT funcional leadership!

Third. The argument is closed. The science is complete. The debate over!
No it's not. And we RESENT ya'll claiming it is.

Fourth. Man made CO2 simply is not credible as a driver of climate. Hasn't been the driver in other warm periods, and isn't now. And the un-co-operative temperatures prove it isn't. No matter HOW much you scream temperatures follow CO2, it's obvious in the data it doesn't. Also, climate is FAR to complex, to be over simplified to such a ridiculous degree. Alsio, ya'll are enamored of an argument that betrays your real belief! Constantly, ya'll come back to ALL the carbon fuel, coal, petrol, natural gas burned each day, and "It just has to be detrimental!".
what's obvious is, THAT's your REAL theory. The rest, is trying to force science to support this conjecture that we are harming the enviroment!

Shall I go On? There is considerable more. But, ya'll blew it. You only convince those who are vulnerable to, 'All this burning carbon fuel HAS to be bad!"

We WILL wait! In 2 at most 3 years, you TOO will have evidence that it's the sun drives climate, not CO2. But I'll bet money, SOME will STILL claim it's CO@. But not enough of you.

I have faith in peoples ability to think, reason, understand, and see the truth. It just takes some longer.