Global Warming? are humans to blame?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by hansp77, Sep 11, 2006.

?

Do you believe

  1. Global Warming is occuring as a direct result of Human Activity.

    106 vote(s)
    51.7%
  2. IF Gloabal Warming is occurring it is as a result of Non-Human or Natural Processes.

    99 vote(s)
    48.3%
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  1. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Christianity isn't a mutual fund, it's eternal life insurance and HMO. :)
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Enough with the hocus pocus already. Doesn't anyone respect that we're guests here, our moderator has asked us to leave off religion and politics. Proselytize somewhere else.

    The subject is climate change, not judo-christianic mythology
     
  3. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    It's alright for you to call my religion hocus pocus and mythology and post outrages unsupported claims about YOUR religion, 'Catastrophic man made global warming' .
    You ADMITEDLY proselytize for global warming, and accuse us against you, as 'heretics'.
    You constantly try to control and dis-allow opposing opinions.
    Do you really think somebody made YOU DICTATOR and CENSOR, Boston?
     
  4. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts dSST.txt

    These are the tabulated annual global temperatures since 1980 till now.

    In my next post, I'll re-arrange this data by the hottest years. You will see there is NO apparent current warming.

    OBAL Land-Ocean Temperature Index in 0.01 degrees Celsius base period: 1951-1980

    sources: GHCN-v3 1880-04/2012 + SST: 1880-11/1981 HadISST1
    12/1981-04/2012 Reynolds v2
    using elimination of outliers and homogeneity adjustment
    Notes: 1950 DJF = Dec 1949 - Feb 1950 ; ***** = missing

    AnnMean
    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    1880 -42 -25 -24 -35 -30 -37 -22 -12 -28 -22 -18 -22 -27**** ***** -30 -24 -23 1880
    1881 -19 -23 0 -4 -5 -31 -13 -11 -25 -28 -37 -29 -19 -18 -21 -3 -18 -30 1881
    1882 -12 -1 -9 -28 -24 -32 -26 -13 -24 -37 -36 -51 -24 -23 -14 -20 -24 -32 1882
    1883 -45 -40 -17 -22 -26 -10 -9 -20 -30 -33 -32 -28 -26 -28 -45 -22 -13 -32 1883
    1884 -26 -18 -34 -38 -36 -35 -27 -18 -31 -33 -35 -31 -30 -30 -24 -36 -27 -33 1884
    1885 -60 -32 -23 -39 -32 -41 -29 -26 -22 -23 -18 -5 -29 -31 -41 -31 -32 -21 1885
    1886 -36 -43 -28 -20 -18 -32 -7 -22 -19 -30 -33 -29 -26 -24 -28 -22 -20 -27 1886
    1887 -63 -50 -34 -41 -29 -23 -7 -26 -24 -37 -31 -39 -34 -33 -47 -35 -19 -31 1887
    1888 -47 -46 -45 -35 -28 -24 -19 -22 -18 -10 -5 -21 -27 -28 -44 -36 -22 -11 1888
    1889 -22 9 -1 -2 -6 -13 -16 -24 -21 -30 -37 -33 -16 -15 -11 -3 -17 -29 1889
    1890 -51 -40 -33 -37 -49 -38 -30 -37 -41 -23 -50 -34 -39 -39 -41 -40 -35 -38 1890
    1891 -48 -53 -17 -30 -20 -23 -23 -18 -16 -23 -38 -9 -26 -28 -45 -22 -21 -25 1891
    1892 -37 -11 -34 -43 -32 -22 -31 -28 -21 -28 -51 -47 -32 -29 -19 -36 -27 -33 1892
    1893 -85 -58 -19 -36 -38 -28 -10 -26 -24 -17 -17 -34 -33 -34 -63 -31 -21 -20 1893
    1894 -50 -32 -25 -44 -39 -43 -20 -25 -35 -28 -38 -29 -34 -34 -39 -36 -29 -33 1894
    1895 -55 -49 -30 -27 -30 -22 -20 -18 -11 -16 -13 -20 -26 -27 -44 -29 -20 -13 1895
    1896 -25 -19 -31 -37 -16 -14 -7 -13 -10 -1 -14 -12 -16 -17 -21 -28 -11 -8 1896
    1897 -21 -18 -17 -7 -4 -12 -4 -9 -14 -10 -18 -16 -12 -12 -17 -9 -8 -14 1897
    1898 -5 -25 -47 -24 -34 -17 -20 -21 -19 -28 -38 -27 -25 -24 -15 -35 -19 -28 1898
    1899 -20 -36 -28 -15 -16 -27 -8 -5 -6 -1 14 -26 -14 -15 -28 -19 -13 3 1899
    1900 -33 6 0 -10 -7 -9 -9 -9 -5 2 -12 -7 -8 -9 -18 -5 -9 -5 1900

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    1901 -19 1 4 -2 -13 -12 -16 -17 -21 -25 -22 -24 -14 -12 -8 -4 -15 -23 1901
    1902 -13 7 -22 -24 -27 -28 -16 -25 -25 -31 -41 -45 -24 -23 -10 -24 -23 -32 1902
    1903 -24 7 -14 -34 -31 -41 -27 -36 -42 -40 -30 -44 -30 -30 -21 -27 -35 -37 1903
    1904 -55 -43 -33 -42 -40 -33 -31 -32 -36 -29 -10 -20 -34 -36 -47 -38 -32 -25 1904
    1905 -29 -54 -20 -34 -27 -24 -21 -15 -15 -24 -8 -19 -24 -24 -34 -27 -20 -16 1905
    1906 -26 -29 -15 -2 -19 -12 -20 -10 -20 -14 -37 -13 -18 -19 -24 -12 -14 -24 1906
    1907 -41 -48 -26 -45 -48 -43 -37 -38 -27 -24 -43 -42 -39 -36 -34 -40 -40 -31 1907
    1908 -39 -25 -45 -40 -32 -25 -23 -32 -21 -29 -39 -39 -32 -33 -35 -39 -27 -29 1908
    1909 -55 -37 -42 -44 -40 -40 -32 -19 -21 -21 -18 -38 -34 -34 -43 -42 -30 -20 1909
    1910 -31 -30 -33 -33 -33 -32 -20 -22 -28 -30 -41 -55 -32 -31 -33 -33 -25 -33 1910
    1911 -52 -46 -49 -48 -40 -37 -23 -27 -22 -17 -16 -17 -33 -36 -51 -45 -29 -19 1911
    1912 -22 -8 -29 -21 -19 -19 -37 -51 -42 -51 -30 -33 -30 -29 -16 -23 -36 -41 1912
    1913 -37 -33 -37 -34 -37 -41 -27 -23 -24 -30 -17 -2 -28 -31 -34 -36 -30 -24 1913
    1914 -2 -10 -19 -23 -15 -14 -15 -13 -16 0 -17 -14 -13 -12 -5 -19 -14 -11 1914
    1915 -20 -5 -12 2 -1 -1 0 -9 -5 -19 -11 -18 -8 -8 -13 -4 -4 -11 1915
    1916 -16 -14 -31 -25 -31 -36 -26 -19 -24 -17 -34 -62 -28 -24 -16 -29 -27 -25 1916
    1917 -39 -48 -48 -37 -55 -35 -16 -20 -13 -35 -28 -68 -37 -36 -50 -46 -24 -26 1917
    1918 -47 -43 -27 -43 -45 -33 -27 -37 -22 -6 -18 -32 -32 -35 -53 -38 -32 -15 1918
    1919 -15 -18 -18 -11 -16 -17 -18 -14 -10 -17 -43 -33 -19 -19 -22 -15 -16 -23 1919
    1920 -12 -19 0 -13 -10 -18 -23 -19 -19 -25 -28 -43 -19 -18 -21 -8 -20 -24 1920

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    1921 -4 -15 -12 -15 -19 -12 0 -26 -19 -7 -16 -16 -13 -16 -21 -15 -13 -14 1921
    1922 -30 -34 -19 -24 -30 -25 -16 -25 -28 -25 -16 -18 -24 -24 -27 -24 -22 -23 1922
    1923 -23 -26 -23 -34 -35 -21 -26 -29 -25 -8 3 -2 -21 -22 -22 -31 -26 -10 1923
    1924 -21 -23 -9 -31 -21 -20 -18 -20 -23 -23 -12 -31 -21 -19 -16 -20 -19 -20 1924
    1925 -30 -25 -16 -17 -23 -28 -20 -13 -16 -19 1 16 -16 -20 -29 -19 -20 -11 1925
    1926 21 14 24 -8 -13 -15 -8 1 -3 1 -4 -18 -1 2 17 1 -7 -2 1926
    1927 -18 -4 -29 -22 -19 -17 -6 -15 -7 3 0 -29 -14 -13 -13 -24 -13 -1 1927
    1928 3 -2 -18 -23 -24 -28 -10 -16 -11 -11 1 -7 -12 -14 -9 -22 -18 -7 1928
    1929 -32 -42 -23 -30 -31 -32 -26 -23 -19 -7 0 -42 -25 -23 -27 -28 -27 -9 1929
    1930 -15 -13 -2 -15 -16 -14 -8 -1 -7 -7 17 -1 -7 -10 -23 -11 -8 1 1930
    1931 1 -15 -1 -12 -10 3 11 4 -7 6 -1 3 -1 -2 -5 -8 6 -1 1931
    1932 16 -13 -11 -2 -11 -19 -11 -10 3 3 -15 -16 -7 -6 2 -8 -13 -3 1932
    1933 -22 -19 -18 -16 -16 -19 -7 -11 -18 -14 -25 -40 -19 -17 -19 -17 -12 -19 1933
    1934 -16 2 -25 -23 -5 -6 -1 -4 -14 0 10 3 -7 -10 -18 -18 -4 -1 1934
    1935 -26 24 -3 -27 -23 -15 -11 -12 -14 2 -22 -13 -12 -10 0 -18 -12 -11 1935
    1936 -20 -27 -14 -11 -9 -6 12 1 -2 5 7 10 -5 -6 -20 -11 2 3 1936
    1937 2 20 -7 -9 2 4 8 9 18 15 19 -1 7 8 11 -5 7 17 1937
    1938 15 10 23 20 8 -2 7 6 13 20 17 -9 11 11 8 17 4 17 1938
    1939 1 -2 -14 -5 -1 1 4 -2 0 -4 5 37 2 -2 -3 -7 1 0 1939
    1940 -17 1 4 12 4 4 18 -2 8 2 7 12 4 6 7 7 7 6 1940

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    1941 9 22 3 14 10 6 11 2 -13 20 12 21 10 9 14 9 6 6 1941
    1942 21 -8 0 0 7 4 0 -2 1 2 3 4 3 4 11 2 0 2 1942
    1943 -13 12 -7 9 17 2 15 6 5 23 18 25 9 7 1 6 7 15 1943
    1944 35 25 21 10 20 12 18 16 27 24 16 12 20 21 28 17 16 22 1944
    1945 16 11 12 18 1 -1 3 14 1 8 7 -9 7 8 13 10 5 5 1945
    1946 12 7 -4 6 -7 -15 -3 -19 -3 -4 -4 -27 -5 -4 4 -2 -12 -4 1946
    1947 -4 -1 14 5 -3 -8 -3 -4 -7 12 12 -11 0 -1 -11 5 -5 6 1947
    1948 13 -9 -9 -5 5 4 -10 -7 -8 1 -4 -20 -4 -3 -3 -3 -4 -4 1948
    1949 14 -16 -1 -8 -9 -20 -9 -4 -5 -1 -5 -10 -6 -7 -7 -6 -11 -4 1949
    1950 -25 -27 -2 -18 -14 -6 -8 -19 -11 -17 -29 -11 -16 -16 -21 -12 -11 -19 1950
    1951 -32 -40 -17 -9 1 -4 -1 11 9 14 3 17 -4 -6 -27 -8 2 9 1951
    1952 15 14 -8 6 -1 3 7 9 8 -4 -14 -4 3 4 15 -1 6 -4 1952
    1953 11 18 16 19 8 4 4 9 9 9 2 15 10 9 8 14 6 7 1953
    1954 -18 -4 -8 -10 -17 -13 -22 -18 -13 -3 12 -12 -10 -8 -3 -12 -17 -1 1954
    1955 18 -14 -30 -17 -19 -13 -7 11 -7 1 -22 -28 -11 -9 -2 -22 -3 -9 1955
    1956 -16 -25 -23 -22 -24 -14 -9 -26 -15 -22 -17 -8 -18 -20 -23 -23 -17 -18 1956
    1957 -6 3 2 9 11 19 4 16 8 4 15 17 8 6 -4 8 13 9 1957
    1958 42 24 15 5 7 -8 8 -1 -3 5 5 5 9 10 28 9 0 3 1958
    1959 11 11 22 18 10 7 7 1 -8 -4 -8 4 6 6 9 16 5 -6 1959
    1960 1 19 -31 -13 -5 -3 -1 6 5 5 -9 20 -1 -2 8 -16 0 1 1960

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    1961 4 21 10 12 21 13 1 3 8 6 6 -15 7 10 15 14 5 6 1961
    1962 6 18 12 11 -10 9 -3 -5 3 1 8 0 4 3 3 5 0 4 1962
    1963 2 20 -13 -8 -3 6 14 26 23 9 14 3 8 7 7 -8 15 15 1963
    1964 -4 -9 -26 -33 -28 -4 -6 -24 -37 -30 -20 -29 -21 -18 -3 -29 -11 -29 1964
    1965 -10 -18 -10 -19 -6 -11 -21 -6 -17 -7 -8 -6 -12 -14 -19 -12 -13 -11 1965
    1966 -17 -1 9 -11 -6 -2 11 -5 1 -15 0 -3 -3 -4 -8 -3 1 -5 1966
    1967 -7 -24 7 -3 12 -6 6 0 0 11 -1 -2 -1 -1 -11 5 0 3 1967
    1968 -22 -14 26 -4 -10 -1 -8 -5 -14 13 -3 -12 -5 -4 -13 4 -5 -1 1968
    1969 -6 -9 -3 19 13 13 -3 0 8 14 16 30 8 4 -9 10 3 13 1969
    1970 10 23 9 4 -5 -2 -2 -14 12 3 3 -12 2 6 21 3 -6 6 1970
    1971 -2 -20 -22 -11 -12 -21 -12 -4 -2 -5 -8 -12 -11 -11 -12 -15 -12 -5 1971
    1972 -26 -21 -4 -2 -3 5 -1 20 4 4 -2 18 -1 -3 -20 -3 8 2 1972
    1973 24 28 25 24 23 16 9 0 7 12 3 -8 14 16 24 24 9 7 1973
    1974 -15 -27 -6 -13 -5 -5 -3 10 -9 -7 -12 -11 -9 -8 -17 -8 1 -9 1974
    1975 2 1 11 -3 18 -3 -3 -22 -6 -10 -16 -21 -4 -4 -3 9 -9 -11 1975
    1976 -8 -11 -27 -15 -29 -15 -13 -19 -11 -28 -11 1 -16 -17 -13 -24 -16 -17 1976
    1977 10 15 16 20 29 23 20 16 -4 -4 14 3 13 13 9 21 20 2 1977
    1978 5 9 14 10 3 -6 8 -18 9 -2 8 1 3 4 5 9 -5 5 1978
    1979 7 -17 10 11 -4 5 -6 10 20 19 20 40 10 6 -3 6 3 20 1979
    1980 22 29 23 27 28 10 22 17 14 10 22 10 19 22 30 26 16 15 1980

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    1981 49 36 44 24 16 22 29 31 12 5 17 29 26 25 32 28 27 12 1981
    1982 1 8 -11 -2 12 0 12 -3 2 2 3 36 5 5 13 0 3 2 1982
    1983 46 35 37 27 30 15 11 29 35 10 22 10 26 28 39 31 18 22 1983
    1984 23 8 24 4 30 -1 11 11 17 4 -6 -14 9 11 14 19 7 5 1984
    1985 16 -12 11 4 6 13 -6 10 5 5 1 8 5 3 -3 7 6 4 1985
    1986 22 37 25 19 16 6 5 7 -1 6 2 7 12 13 22 20 6 2 1986
    1987 26 39 11 18 17 32 40 18 31 27 21 45 27 24 24 15 30 26 1987
    1988 52 36 47 36 39 40 27 32 31 30 0 21 33 34 45 40 33 20 1988
    1989 6 29 29 19 6 7 29 26 32 27 9 29 21 20 19 18 21 23 1989
    1990 30 29 67 46 37 28 43 24 16 38 37 34 36 35 30 50 31 30 1990
    1991 34 44 28 43 31 48 47 38 39 20 19 24 35 35 37 34 44 26 1991
    1992 38 33 38 15 23 15 1 0 -12 -5 -8 10 12 13 32 25 5 -8 1992
    1993 27 28 28 15 16 9 12 1 -1 13 -2 12 13 13 22 20 7 3 1993
    1994 22 -7 19 30 15 33 21 14 30 35 39 28 23 22 9 21 23 35 1994
    1995 43 71 40 40 20 35 48 38 22 43 37 23 38 39 47 33 40 34 1995
    1996 23 47 30 25 20 18 35 47 24 15 34 33 29 28 31 25 33 24 1996
    1997 26 32 48 32 31 52 27 34 43 52 57 56 41 39 30 37 38 51 1997
    1998 55 82 59 56 66 71 64 63 42 40 44 51 58 58 64 60 66 42 1998
    1999 42 59 27 24 21 34 30 28 30 32 29 34 33 34 51 24 31 30 1999
    2000 17 52 50 52 30 37 35 39 35 19 28 24 35 36 34 44 37 27 2000

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
    2001 37 40 54 42 52 44 51 46 49 45 65 51 48 46 34 49 47 53 2001
    2002 69 69 87 55 56 47 56 45 52 50 50 36 56 57 63 66 49 50 2002
    2003 67 50 52 48 52 40 48 63 60 67 49 68 55 53 51 51 50 58 2003
    2004 53 66 58 51 35 34 19 42 47 59 65 46 48 50 62 48 31 57 2004
    2005 68 55 67 62 55 57 54 56 66 72 64 63 61 60 56 61 56 67 2005
    2006 47 62 58 44 41 54 42 63 54 59 64 71 55 54 57 48 53 59 2006
    2007 88 62 64 66 61 52 55 55 51 54 48 39 58 61 74 64 54 51 2007
    2008 15 25 64 43 41 34 53 35 52 55 57 47 43 43 26 49 41 55 2008
    2009 54 45 46 48 54 60 64 55 64 60 68 59 56 55 49 49 60 64 2009
    2010 68 74 84 76 64 55 49 53 53 62 70 42 62 64 67 75 52 62 2010
    2011 43 42 56 55 42 49 65 64 50 54 46 44 51 51 42 51 59 50 2011
    2012 34 39 46 56**************************************** ********* 39*************** 2012
    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec J-D D-N DJF MAM JJA SON Year
     
  5. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Warmest years in order of warmest from NASA tabulated data previous post
    --annual means in hundreths of degrees C above 1951-1980 mean (put a decimal in front of the number to get the fraction of a degree C)
    Year J-D D-N
    2010 62 64
    2005 61 60
    2007 58 61
    1998 58 58
    2002 56 57
    2009 56 55
    2006 55 54
    2003 55 53
    2011 51 51 Cooling off?
    2004 48 50
    2001 48 46
    2008 43 43
    1997 41 39
    1995 38 39
    2000 35 36
    1990 36 35
    1991 35 35
    1999 33 34
    1988 33 34
    1996 29 28
    ------------------------
    2012 34 39 46 56
    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr

    Other years between 1980 and now, were slightly cooler

    Nothing catastrophic or rapidly increasing.
     
  6. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bntii Senior Member

    1880 till now...
     
  7. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    The data I posted was from Hansens office in NASA. He chose the 1951-1980 mean because of 'more confidence, more reliable instrumentation' than earlier years, but actually I suspect he chose this period for comparison because it was slightly cooler. Makes warming appear greater. During this period, impending new ice age was the propaganda. :D
    Even with Hansen's SHADING THE DATA, there is NOTHING ALARMING HERE. CO2 IS STEADILY INCREASING, TEMPERATURES ARE NOT FOLLOWING!
    Theory of MAN MADE WARMING is in SERIOUS trouble. :)
     
  8. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    NOAA's data shows 2011 even cooler. Cooler than 2004 and 2001. I used Hansen influenced NASA numbers so nobody could argue with them. Personally, I have more faith in NOAA. Hansen has been CAUGHT and PROVEN manipulating the data, more than once! :) Hansen is a GW political activist. He admits it. :)

    NOAA also shows 2005 and 2010 tied for hottest on record.
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    From
    Study: Warm Ocean Currents Cause Majority Of Ice Loss From Antarctica; 'We See A Clear Pattern'
    http://www.underwatertimes.com/news.php?article_id=20511039748

    Researchers used 4.5 million measurements made by a laser instrument mounted on NASA's ICESat satellite to map the changing thickness of almost all the floating ice shelves around Antarctica, revealing the pattern of ice-shelf melt across the continent. Of the 54 ice shelves mapped, 20 are being melted by warm ocean currents, most of which are in West Antarctica. In every case, the inland glaciers that flow down to the coast and feed into these thinning ice shelves have accelerated, draining more ice into the sea and contributing to sea level rise.
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Ah so its god made warming.
     
  11. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    The sun drives the climate Frosty. God created the sun and the laws of physics, ergo, you are correct! :)

    It's called "natural" cycles. :)

    But if you have any doubts HE exists, ask your insurance company. Are you covered for "acts of GOD" ? :)
     
  12. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    NO--acts of god are not insured anymore. Out of USA.

    No matter how hard you try to keep us in the doldrums of life some people are breaking free of nonsense and moving foward.

    God made the sun? really did he have asbestos gloves.

    Who told you this? some kid in the playing ground at Mc Donalds.
     
  13. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    1."Overall, Antarctic sea ice has grown slightly over the past thirty years.”
    2.“In Southern Hemisphere winter months, ice extent has increased by around one percent per decade.”
    3.“In the summer, ice has increased by two to three percent per decade.”

    http://iceagenow.info/2012/01/antarctic-sea-ice-growing-heck-double-talk/
     
  14. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    The judo-christianic god is a pure fantasy. A fantasy assembled from bits and pieces of other mythologies from the ancient world. Virtually every aspect of it can be found in former writings and mythos, the virgin birth <---- Zoroastrian , dying and then rising again after three days, breaking the gates of the underworld <----- Sumerian, the weighing/judgment of the soul <----- Egyptian. Set or Satan, IE the bogyman also Egyptian, those and countless other aspects are all taken from other mythologies.

    now that thats settled maybe we can get back to our subject and quit disrespecting our host with the religious nonsense.

    cheers
    B
     

  15. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    I don't dis-respect the host, Boston. Just your extravagant falsehoods, erroneous opinions, and fuzzy logic! :)
     
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