Getting there like twin 150's on 20 ft. Bass boat w/o the fanfare.

Discussion in 'Jet Drives' started by Ed Steele, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    Have a Tesla "marine certified" electric power plant with batteries that's is guaranteed to exceed the "twin 150's" performance by 120% or more. Plan to use carbon composite for hull material for a one-off, proof of concept 20 ft. Bass boat, based on tracker design (at least on the top). Haven't concluded my research on the pumps or gearbox... most that are commercially available aren't efficient at all.
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Hello, I take it this is a plan to "go electric", propulsion wise, you have a motor + batteries, but no drive ? When you say "not efficient", do you mean they don't suit the RPM of your motor ? Or are you dismayed that considerable losses occur in applying the power to the water ?
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    First, you need to define performance. The power density of gasoline is much higher than that of any electrical storage device, by weight or volume. By your mention of pumps, is this a jetdrive? It will be less efficient than any outboard with propellers, because jets have higher losses. That is the reason race boats use propellers instead of jets. I am curious about Tesla's "marine certification". Can you provide more information?
    Thanks
     
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  4. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    Assuming I, like so many before me, can find or build a much more efficient jet pump/gear box. I may have use the best the market has to offer. Just to waste what Tesla's team has created going to be a challenge to design half shafts that can handle the torque with instant demands for thrust changes. Afraid I'm not allowed to say much more about this monster. There's something to be said for a constant, unshiftable mass of super high efficiency batteries over fuel. Batteries, which I can say, are vastly superior in just about every respect that's currently available on the market.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  5. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    The question of matching this engine package to anything out there is handled via software as well as online performance management. Hate the thought of using brute force when engineering for maximum efficiency is so much sweeter solution and more repeatable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  6. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    Performance to application is key. If you've ever been on a zodiac with twin 150's racing up a jungle river... essentially announcing to anything with ears that Spec ops is in country than you'll understand why I have placed stealth at higher value than loss due to jet inefficiencies. For that matter, just an early morning fishing outing.. neighbors hate the noise of a nasty big block with a hot cam on avgas. Owned and raced 39' scorpion offshore race boat with 3 690+ matched monsters and as Spec ops operator I have also experienced the jungle river rides. Oh don't get me wrong I do love the sounds of those engines even at idle. There's also nothing like stopping a dime, getting nine cents in change, station with virtually no noise or power signature, pivot in place, go full up in a full shake an bake extract under fire. Can't do that outboard and props, especially if one of those outboard takes some of that incoming heat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  7. Yellowjacket
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    Yellowjacket Senior Member

    You need to appreciate that just stuffing batteries and a big electric motor into a hull that was designed for outboards is going to be a recipe for disaster. One of the key elements of the performance of a fast bass boat is the weight distribution. If you try to put a large battery pack into a hull that wasn't designed expressly for it is going to result in poor performance and instability. Get someone who knows how to design a hull expressly for this and you'll likely have better results. What speed range are you looking for in this application?
     
  8. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    If I didn't have the best group of dedicated software geniuses on the planet, who have worked with me countless hours, off the books, I would be no where close to achieving the goals of this project. Complex blends, curves, locations and precise design of each element. The gills that provide water through ceramic coated channels that cool the battery packs. Speed range ? 120 to 150% better than a compatible configured 20 ft bass boat or zodiac with a full load out with 8 operators.
     
  9. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    After all said and done, I may not be able to reduce the costs to a level that makes it affordable to manufacture for the private sector, but for military and law enforcement, even moving the bar, increasing the odds... OH YEAH...ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!
     
  10. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    lol....so what is the weight of the batteries, and what range would this have with this powerplant in a car ?
     
  11. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    As mentioned earlier for those paying attention...the combined weight of engine, batteries, a gearbox and two appropriately sized pumps within 3 pounds of a pair of 150's with a full load of fuel. Range is about 20% better than Tesla's 97S. Doesn't get up on a plane as quickly as I would like, but once she gets there (looking at certain aspects of the hull design as the source of that issue). There only four of these particular power plants in existence and I have and own three of them, the fourth is a test bed unit Tesla's lab.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  12. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    Celebrating the maturation of knowledge that have accompanied this journey that been a reward I hadn't expected. Learning the techniques of sculpting the flow of solid columns of water traveling at extremely high speeds, how slight changes in velocities without inducing any turbulence achieve the desired results. Observing what minute amounts of saltwater corrosion can do to a columns integrity. Right now I am seeking to improve the efficiency of the jet pump's loss ratio to the prop powered system, also materials that reduce weight while enchanting strength and sustainable under harshest conditions. To be frank, after countless hours that have been invested and how far we still have to go, it's going to be a challenge to find acceptable compromises that make this a marketable project. Nonetheless, despite the costs and challenges the journey has been it's own reward. Failure is not an option, to many folks looking at this project to succeed.
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Sorry, but this all sounds like sales hype. You have not answered any of the fundamental questions. For example, what is your definition of performance, the range compared to gas outboards at the same displacement, top speed, etc. If you have this large groups of "geniuses" working for you, there should be no need to ask basic questions in a forum.
     
  14. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    When I embarked on this project I set forth certain goals, one of which I set forth is in the title of this thread. One could not achieve that without first benchmarking those elements of performance that we would use to measure ourselves against. One of the principal challenges in the design phase was to essentially match the weight distribution and maintain the cg since these are critical elements to define a baseline. As of this response we can sustain or increase our performance by 12% in a step-by-step match with comparable configured and equipped 20' tracker bass boat with twin 150's for 13 hours before recharging. We considering adding aux generator(s) to pumps to greatly increase that duration... after all it's energy that's already been paid for. An important element of my definition of performance is stealth. So to determine that db levels were measured across a wide, real world environment. This defined our competition's performance to which I set an arbitrary goal of 500% less across the spectrum... As of this writing, we have over achieved in all aspects. It's as silent as I think one could hope to make a substantial material object moving at speed through an ever changing combination of air and water to be. There remains many design and manufacturing challenges. One of my power plants will be used as an endurance test bed. Hope these answers to your questions clearly demonstrate that isn't some "sales pitch" as describe.
     

  15. Ed Steele
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    Ed Steele Junior Member

    Another serious design continues to be armor protection, since survivability in hostile environments is also part performance criteria. Since, unlike the twin 150's there's only one power plant. Years ago I, as engineer working for company in Chicago with a military contract with TACOM to design new, improved hatches for the M2 Bradley. Understandable, after witnessing the effects of 30 cal round from A-10's 30 cal chin gun did to 1-1/2" 6083 alum armor where observed. The chunks it spalded out on the backside would have made hamburger of anything in the compartment. As a master sniper, my weapon of choice is my 50 cal highly customized Barrett and the damage it can do. So there continues to be research and development/testing. Analyzing how the absorption of energy can be achieved and spread to minimize the effects of hits is critical to the survivability of these power plants. Ultimately I hope see this system used in high risk environments where speed, reliability and stealth are key elements of mission plan.
     
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