Getting Out Of The Box With Hot Air

I could tell you quite a bit more, but I bet my old socks, you never heard before about Redox Flow batteries.

 

Questor lets try something simple find an air motor, about 5hp, suitable to drive a propeller. Air requirements should be something like 20 cfm otherwise you will run out of air quickly.

 

I don't think I heard of them before.The techy I mentioned in a previous post may have mentioned them but he didn't get a chance to tell me more. Last night I read a bit about Vanadium Redox Batteries . They are supposedly easy to home manufacture and they are allegedly ideal for projects that draw 5 to 10 kw. I question the ease of home manufacture though because the article I read mentioned a need for a Proton Exchange Membrane separating the fluids. I had tried to obtain PEMs before for an energy project that uses sewage for fuel. No one in this hillbilly haven knew what they were or where to find them.

 

The battery itself is just two tanks.

The membrane and controller are another animal. The membrane is not on the market. Only few manufacturers ever produced some, and one has to know the market to come by.

The technology is not sensible in that low power range.

end of lesson.

Richard

 

I found a Canadian distributor of Vanadium Redox Batteries at as low as 7 kw. They provide small systems for telecommunications arrays, off grid alternative energy and Hybrid cars.No idea of how expensive their products are. Also learned that there are many, many Vanadium redox flow technologies on the market.That doesn't make choice very easy if you're trying to choose between competing technologies that you have had no exposure to. Contact for the Canadian distributor is sales@pdenergy.com

 

For a readable article on Vanadium Redox Batteries try this site http//www.ceic.unsw.edu.au/centers/vrb/vanart2a.htm .

 

The calculation is based on hull drag of 100N, which is reasonable for that size boat at that low speed, assuming no waves, current or wind, but you may well be correct that I am too optimistic.

It's an air-motor, not an electric motor. The manufacturer quotes 45%, I took off another 5% for the gearbox.

If you go against the wind you could easily need 10 times the power calculated here, and the the range is down to 4 miles or so.

I wasn't suggesting that a 1hp motor would be enough; I thought the numbers showed that it's not realistic to use an air motor in a boat. The only situation where it might work would be an on inland reservoir where diesels and petrol motors are banned.

 

Thanks I am quite famiiar with the technology and have installed several of the RF batteries in the past. Not on boats of course.

No, there is only one technology. And quite few suppliers.
But there is a lot of ads and drivel on the market, thats true.

It seems there is a recent trend towards this extremely clever system though.

 

Chinese save more/live better (because of what you said) than a Canadian - Nope. Nope. They save more because they have no retirement and have to! (and it is ingrained in them)... In fact, "ingrained" is a choice word as they are accustomed to actually starving to the extent of proportioning individual grains of rice (didn't you read The Good Life, Pearl S. Buck, when you were a kid? Live better than a Canadian? Are you kidding me? One might consider moving to China (or, specifically, Macau) now based upon the pro-business environment and future prosperity potential but are you seriously suggesting that some poor sap in a polluted beehive apartment/industrial center is living better than a clean-air breathing, skilled worker Canadian? Why is the Chinese/Canadian immigration imbalance roughly 30,000 per year towards Canada? I've got a client in Kamloops, BC that is a heavy equipment operator. He makes money pretty much at will and travels half the year on disposable income (recently three weeks in Guangzhou)- a different picture than you painted, Questor.

European and Japonese cars safer... The Volkswagen Passat GLX (V6) came in at number one in its class, with the Toyota Camry XLE (V6) close behind but in a test between the Passat and the Ford F-150, for example, it was realized that the European car is not the place to be. The heavy full-size Mercedes does pretty well in crash tests, too, but not with a moose, which goes through the windsheild and kills the occupants. Do you feel Americans are not capable to build a car "safer in its class", Richard or is it simply that they are happy with what they have? I have an affinity for some European cars also - don't get me wrong - I own two BMWs (well, one is a "GMW" as it has an LS3 rolling chassis hidden beneath its sheatmetal) and both are superior to any other cars I have owned on many points. You people also make good hand tools. Here's what makes a BMW a GMW (and an even better car):



Just responding to a couple of points on the thread...

 

come on Mark,

you drive a tank in the VW and say the tank is the safer place to be?

Drive the Ford junk into a concrete wall at 30 mph! Definetively no survivors. And if, they would wish they did not.
Do the same with any European or Japanese car.
Sure you got the picture.

I concur on your comments about the chinese drivel. But you did notice who made that statement?

Richard

 

I'm running into some confusion on the tank issue. Some sites show 2 tanks with each having an electrode in it. Other sites show three tanks. One positive one negative and a reaction tank in the middle with circulating systems between the reaction tank and the positive, negative tanks. The University (UNSW) that developed the technology shows 3 tanks. Why bother with the third tank , circulating pumps filtration issues etc if all you need is 2 tanks, 2 electrodes and a simple Proton Exchange Medium between them ?

 

This is the common setup:


a third tank is not necessary. Be sure you refer to Vanadium systems. Redox flow works as well with Fe/Cr, Br2/Cr, and NaBr+Na2S4/Na2S2+NaBr3.

Pumps are of course required, filtration not.

The university did NOT develop the technique btw.

see:

Patent number: 3996064 US
Filing date: 22 Aug 1975
Issue date: 7 Dec 1976

 

That is a much better illustration than most.It still illustrates what appears to be a third tank or chamber for reaction. The size of the third tank being determined by the size of the Proton Exchange Medium. I suppose you need the circulating pumps because the electrons don't travel well within the solutions.

 

There is no third tank. The red field just highlights the words "charge / discharge"

do some legwork yourself.

end of lesson.......

 

All this is, is a battery with external electrolyte, therefore it is not limited by battery size or plate but electrolyte tank size. But being that all these chemicals are typically highly dangerous and corrosive, you don't want any for these being damaged and spilling their guts.