Gas from Water, (WaterFuel), HHO technology

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by brian eiland, May 15, 2006.

  1. sigurd
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    sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

    q2: there seems to be a lot of different concepts mentioned to my untrained eyes. I'll go and ponder for a awhile. Thank you.
     
  2. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    Sigard,

    here is another one that has been around for about 40 years

    http://pappengine.com/

    Here is another one that comes to mind
    http://www.angellabsllc.com/

    So efficient that it will run on steam and air using a plasma ignition from what I understand. He won the NASA create the future award with it.

    EDIT -
    Imagine an engine the size of a car alternator that puts out more power than a V-8. 40 times the power to weight ratio and far more fuel efficient.
    - EDIT

    Plasma spark plugs (suppressed but you can make them yourself) will double the mileage on an engine.

    So you don't have to get radical or expensive to cut fuel costs dramatically.
     
  3. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    The boosters are APCP (solid fuel) and the main uses LOX (liquid O2) and LH2 (liquid H2)

    The only H2O2 on the shuttle is used to treat cuts.

    Not too much for a few years,but have been building solid rockets for 20 years...
     
  4. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    Huh.. You could be right as you can see the gas vent off the tank and the tank is insulated. I have different information from other sources that say otherwise but you are probably right.

    Maybe they were referring to the smaller maneuvering jets? I have not been to the cape since I was a child. Both my grandparents worked there and I used to get to go with my grandpa to the VAB and watch them build apollo rockets and satellites. Pretty cool stuff for a kid.

    H2O2 is used in many liquid rocket fuels and is cleaved using silver mesh, that I am pretty certain of. Here is a good document on the X1B and near the end you can see the catalyst section.

    Thanks for the correction.

    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/87696main_TND-185.pdf
     
  5. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Not a big deal.

    High test H2O2 is just too volatile...the tiniest organic contaminant will cause a massive chain reaction/explosion.

    My great uncle worked for Messerschmitt and was around the 163's a lot.
    He said that many just vaporized on the strip,and all they'd find of the pilot was bone fragments.

    If they landed with any amount of fuel in the tanks there was a 75% chance of explosion.

    I seem to remember 83% H202 in the 163.
     
  6. sigurd
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    sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

    Hi q2, I have seen the MYT on the web - I like. I have made sketches of a similar principle but where the pistons drive/are driven by cams or roller tracks in place of gears, and the cylinders are more like a partial butterfly valve than a full toroid (maybe not so similar after all but huge displacement/weight).
    There are a few other engines I think deserves attention as well, even though it is off topic I'll mention a few.
    Ball piston engine, www.convergence-eng.com under "other projects". Looks very good once the diameter is 12" or more (due to stroke loss in the smaller sizes).
    Scroll expander, common compressor principle.
    Jerry Hale rotary engine, check out youtube.
    These are just a few that has struck my fancy.

    With regards to plasma plugs, that is indeed very interesting, as I'm interested in making detonation engines. The Quasiturbine pages have some basic introduction/viewpoints on this topic. There is also a working resonance/detonation driven tangential turbine: www.ttengines.com

    When you say that plasma plugs will double the mileage, is that due to detonation? In that case, I am not sure a normal car engine can withstand the pressure/velocity/heat? I am told that during deflagration there is a boundary layer of relatively still and cool air next to the cylinder walls and piston, which protects them, but that detonation engulfs/removes this protective gas layer.

    Regarding gas, I'll make my own if necessary, am currently fiddling with my versions of the Luciastove gasifying stove. www.worldstove.com and youtube.

    I'll check out the papp site, and also come back with more questions, about your previous post. Meanwhile, could you perhaps explain more about the plasma plugs?
     
  7. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    Yes that sounds accurate as 80% is called rocket grade if I recall. Your uncle was telling the truth about the organics causing the H2O2 to react. The pilots own blood becomes part of the explosive reaction.

    Germany was light years ahead of the rest of the world back then in manufacturing and technology. Imagine what the world would be like if we did not suppress technology for military and their destructive Zionist wars.

    We could use some of that money to educate my fellow US citizens. :) I hate living in the US for that reason - wars, stupid people and debt are about we produce any more.

    We have produced a lot of technology but many of our best inventors came from other countries. When the US was more free, we attracted more of those good people and that gave us an edge along with a robust oil business that allowed us to convert energy into products and profit.

    Most of that edge is being lost now and I fear our best days are behind us. Too much corruption from the very top to the very bottom.

    What is the highest altitude you have reached with one of your rockets?
     
  8. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    The plasma plugs I was referring to are called Firestorm. I don't know a lot about the details other than what his web stated. Here is a primer:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abwXApkLhbc

    From what I remember, his web site went dead and he was bought out. You can buy plugs with a long extension on them for R&D. I have a source buried somewhere.

    You can make your own gas from natural gas if you have a source. Many places on Earth have natural gas wells a shallow as 200 meters. It is called Louis B. CHERRY

    Electrical Production of Gasoline
    http://www.rexresearch.com/1index.htm

    Rexresearch.com is one of my favorite web sites. His CD cost about ten bucks and is well worth the archive of information on it.

    I'll check into those engines more when I get time. Loved the wood stoves and the idea of not wasting 80% of the heat up the chimney. There are so many things we could do that require so little in terms of technology and resource it is a crime that we don't. Also the local production is key to other success for their economies. To top it off, they are beautiful!
     
  9. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Han and Sigurd - Have you no shame?
     
  10. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    Sigurd,

    The thing that I can't seem to get out of my head, besides the ultrasonic water heater, is Thane Heins lentz free motor generator.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins

    Windmill driven boat
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNbNNSDljGI

    I replicated Thane's experiment about 6 months ago and was impressed. I have a few ideas on how to make it work better and how to use that on a boat.

    I saw a windmill powered boat on youtube where the windmill was chain driven to the prop. I have often wondered to myself if this would be possible to go directly into the wind. The inventor proved that it does and so I began to ask myself what would happen if we used that same principle with both a lentz free motor and generator.

    You can watch Thane's experiments on youtube and you will see that the faster the motor goes, the faster it wants to go. That is indicative of a free energy device. For now I need to keep my improvements to myself so that someone does not patent it but this has huge potential since it is safe, cheap and easy for the average person to understand and replicate.

    You can replicate any patent one time for personal use without violating intellectual property rights. That simple principle of the shorted coil has been used in many free energy devices in the past and it is the last thing you would ever think to do to an inductor.
     
  11. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Okay. Have fun here.
     
  13. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    I see a pattern here - you like things that go boom.

    Got just the thing for you. Back when I first started playing with hydroxl gas, I decided to light a zip lock sandwich bag full in my garage. Lucky for me, my wife was not home and I didn't blow out the windows but came close.

    Personally, I don't like things that go boom. It is the reason that I don't play with a free energy devices that uses hydrogen gas but this is fairly simple to build, understand and is validated.

    http://jlnlabs.online.fr/mahg/index.htm

    The high voltage breaks the weak hydrogen bond from H2 to H H and I suspect heat is generated because the copper reactor is a 1 turn shorted coil.

    The Methernitha device probably uses the same principle and you can see a loose pickup coil on the tube at the top. The Methernitha state that it is dangerous and so there is probably an explosion possibility. I find it interesting but wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It does no good to invent or replicate something that would be dangerous to yourself or others.

    Magnetics are fun to wind and safe to play with such as Flynn parallel path magnetic flux switching or Than Heinz motor.

    From what I have learned, any mass can be converted in any state of matter into the atomic energy contained within the mass and it appears that all free energy devices use this principle to operate.
     
  14. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    A bit off topic,but interesting:

    18 years old,grew up on semi remote farm with mom and dad on 2 weeks holiday.
    Eight garbage bags duct taped end to end to make one very long garbage bag.

    Filled up with oxy/acetylene gas mix,taped the end off and laid out in the pasture 40 meters(?) from garage,barn,house etc. on top of bunch of newspaper.Lit paper and ran off close to barn with full face Skidoo helmet and ear plugs.

    Two minutes later there was a microsecond flash of a shock wave going out radially and heading to me-I thought someone walloped me in the chest and almost fell down.With the sound of the most horrendous BOOOOOOOOM

    Powdered all the windows in the barn,garage,and equipment shed.
    Kind of scorched for 10 meters around,weeds and clumps of earth torn from ground.
    I had a bit on me,and was on the barn-a powdered semi dry cow plop that came along for the ride.

    Fixed the windows,parents never knew.

    Years later I discovered that oxygenated acetylene is a detonating explosive and that the shock wave can have a propogation speed of up to 15-20 times the speed of sound....

    DO NOT try this.
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    There is hardly a older hat to find on the scene Sigurd!
    We had bilgewater injection, in the commercial shipping in Germany, already in the 80ies! MTU, not known for low tech crap had a complete engine line (based on the 93) capable of 15% water in the emulsion. Came never to the market, issues, issues, problems, trouble.
    All nice in the books and maybe on a Sunday afternoon in Bonneville.
    In a boat or ship, nor worth talking, it is proven that it does NOT work reliable and troublefree.

    Regards
    Richard

    Quite impressive to see, that ALL of these idiots are of the same religion!

    If they cannot show a working sample, the technique is "suppressed" by the industry....

    What do you believe you half baked *******? When CAT had a tiny chance to screw MTU forever, the they would process crocodile pee, digested by the own board of directors, to do so.
    But our dreamers are all sure the industry worldwide, including the Indian and Chinese, sticks together to suppress their clever inventions.

    You are mentally not intact quack troll, go back to the nurse and receive your medication and lullabye.
     
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