Gas from Water, (WaterFuel), HHO technology

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by brian eiland, May 15, 2006.

  1. Luckless
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    Luckless Senior Member

    Did either of those videos actually explain what their chemical is and how it is produced? "Oh look, we add water and this chemical and we get a massive heat spike!", well yes. You have an exothermic reaction with water. I have yet to see you present something as proof of free energy that isn't commonly known in High School science classes, where it is known as not actually free energy. What energy goes into creating the chemicals used in the reaction?
     
  2. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Quarktoo, you just joined in December and have accomplished much. I think you have managed to irritate EVERYONE else on the forum, no matter what their political views. There is more to living than being 100% correct on spelling or grammar, and you can disagree without trying to dehumanize the opponent. If your argument won't stand without insulting slurs, then it baseless. Acting like a turd won't gain you followers.
     
  3. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    You would have to actually do a little research on the subject which would require you to work independently. Just because you don't have a PHD, a lab, experience, know the process, etc. that does not mean that it is not real.

    You seem to define knowledge as belief which is a magical thought. If you can't do a little research on your own, then I really don't care what you think since you don't. That is what some of you don't seem to comprehend in your self delusion based in magical thinking and willful ignorance.

    Dave has a mind and so I care what Dave thinks since he can and does. He is most likely thinking about two things right now.

    1. The empirical science of a sixth grader.
    2. Does he really want to open that box on the web and risk his PHD?

    People that open that box, never get funding for research again and that is how academia is controlled. Dave isn't a fool, so he isn't going to go there but that question will nag him forever.

    But just to prove you have no integrity, now you get to be accountable for this statement:

    Show me where a high school does Leedskalnin's experiment and then explains that. I could go on and on with questions like that and would if I placed any value on your beliefs - I don't.

    The only people that care what you "believe" are those that would want to control, exploit and destroy you. The con always starts by exploiting the belief. Look at where the word "con" as in con artist came from.
     
  4. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    They are not opponents, they are trolls and there is difference. Dave is an opponent and once we got that misquote behind us, I treat him with respect both in the forum and in PM. I value his feedback while not agreeing with him most of the time.

    Followers have no thinking capacity and that is why they are "followers". The last thing I want are useless followers. I am shocked that such an intelligent person such as you hadn't noticed that. Better?
     
  5. Luckless
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    Luckless Senior Member

    Do you do any work in academics? The burden of proof is on YOUR hands, not mine. Give me a paper, proper data sets, and experiment parameters, and I'll take a look at them. I have my own projects to do in realms other than chemistry, I don't have time to run off and start experimenting based on half a clue from an apparent crackpot on some webforum.

    All you have shown is an exothermic reaction with water. That is, a chemical is added to water, and heat is generated. This is High School Science Class stuff. Water + an exothermic reactant = heat. You have not shown what chemicals are being used, and you have provided nothing to show free energy.

    Simple math for you: Put 100 into A

    Now you have your 'free energy' machine that inputs '10' into the system, plus A, and outputs 110.

    OMG!! The Free Energy machine is outputting 110, not 10! This is Free Energy! We're producing an extra 100!.

    But no, no energy has been created, the extra 100, the 'odd spike', was inputted to the system before hand and out of sight. If you do not know all inputs, such as A, then you Cannot claim free energy because you Have not accounted for all energy input!
     
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  6. quarktoo
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    Dave,

    The reason I suggested Leedskalnin's experiment is that the classic EM model is so riddled with flaws it can't explain it. However you clearly have a chemistry degree and perhaps it could be better explained with solid state chemistry as so many things are.

    If the coil is able to align magnetic domains, then it is probable that the electron orbits are being changed and held in a state where the atoms become exploitable to cascade to lower energy states.

    A laser is not a free energy device, it is an amplifier that concentrates energy in a specific area. The laser in Meyer and Mills for example does not produce free energy but raises the electron orbit plane by placing external heat on mass thus allowing the mass to be cascaded into atomic energy with less electrostatic force.

    The atomic energy contained in the mass is greater than the energy that it took to cause the cascade since we used two different forces of the atom instead of just one.

    (On a related note - I "believe" there are actually only two original forces of the atom and the other two are just effects of the original two. E.g., Electrostatic force produces the electromagnetic effect. So we are using both forces to exploit the mass as in the following cheesy analogy... - the ying and the yang)

    EXAMPLE - However flawed as it is:
    I could push you over backwards if I pushed you with enough force but if I had someone get on their hands and knees behind your knees, you would stumble over them and it would take very little force to cause you to fall. I then would have used force and leverage which would amplify the effect of force. When you hit "ground" state, I could harvest your energy by stealing your wallet which flew out of your pocket. :)

    And so that Leedskalnin experiment begs the question, could a M to K band cascade be more efficient if I used Leedskalnin's experiment than if I used a laser or other external heat source since the Leedskalnin's experiment does not require constant input such as a laser?

    It doesn't violate thermodynamics if you understand what electricity is. It would be a simple experiment that could be carried out in a cheap vacuum chamber and you could write a paper on the subject that would have people scratching their heads for a long time.

    IMO - The best science is not the science that shows an effect or validates others like a cheerleader, it is the science that shows an effect while disproving flawed science. I can give you a peer reviewed paper that proves the intermediate step of AB effect associated with electricity production that I wrote about in a PM. Understand that, and you begin to understand Leedskalnin and a bunch of other vacuum, zero point, what ever you want to call it, non-local fields.
     
  7. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    If you read more of my posts, you wouldn't so readily throw around that word intelligent, so I reject it. My fellow trolls and I just prefer less inflammatory remarks. Make your case diplomatically is all I ask. I am guilty of rudeness, as well, but I am also trying to mend my ways.
     
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  8. quarktoo
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    Then let there be a treaty amongst us and we shall go forth and sin no more.

    EDIT -
    You must accept that you are an individual and do not speak for others and as such will not be held accountable for others but you don't.

    To assume I have not read other posts would be based in belief. You have no way of knowing what I have read and what conclusion I would derive from that.

    For example - Between Dave's website link and archive.org I am able to know a lot about Dave. I like Dave and totally agree on the Earthrace hypocrisy and the value of a fast catamaran. I owned a HobiCat as a teen and broke more than one jib cable and mast going fast in rough weather. Wouldn't take a big one into blue water since they don't self right but fun around the beach.


    Quarktoo is a busy body, don't make assumptions on what I think or know.
    -EDIT
     
  9. quarktoo
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    quarktoo ProSpeller



    Response #2 to match his two responses...

    Luckless,

    I didn't ask you to do an experiment, I asked Dave to do an experiment. The subject matter is over your head and I don't time, nor am I inclined, to spoon feed you.

    Damn... That was still too honest and so it looks condescending.. Lets try a more positive approach.

    Luckless,

    As a Canadian, you should be very proud of your nations great contributions to humanity. The hockey puck and the square head screw have advanced human development into quantum realms of universal intelligence and eternal wisdom.

    We stupid "usaians" did little things like the polyphase electricity that powers your country, computer chips with millions of discrete components that crafted your electrons into the photos on my screen, TV, radio, the spacecraft that carried your incredibly well thought out post 50 thousand miles through space at the speed of light at over 10 gigabits, the internet that connected the Earth, your transportation system both ground and aircraft, much of the science the world knows, etc.




    If you could point me to where a high school class takes a hydrogen atom below the known ground state, I would love to see that. I'm sure that must only happen in an advanced country like Canada.

    Those new carbon fiber hockey sticks are amazing! We stupid usaians only invented the materials used to manufacture them. Only Canada would think to use it to evolve a stick.

    Better?
     
  10. masrapido
    Joined: May 2005
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    masrapido Junior forever

    You are quite an agressive debater, yet you keep posting ignorance. I do not want to go into a boxing match with you but you need to understand the magnitude of the holes in your (missing) education:

    Poliphase electricity is NOT usanian invention. Everything you have today, was invented by a Jugoslav. Doctor Nikola Tesla. And he had invented polyphase electricity long before he went to work with that lowlife Edison.

    Dr. Nikola Tesla had invented fluoro lights, debated x-rays before Rontgen, remote control, superconductors and many other things you take for granted and in your ignorance think one of you invented.

    As for the school, in Jugoslav schools, during the "evil" communism they were studying physics and chemistry at this level in 7th and 8th grade of ELEMENTARY school.

    That beats even your "high" schools.

    And semiconductors were not invented by usanians either. The first patent for a transistor was made by a canadian. But germans were making them even earlier than that.

    As for kevlar, do I need to remind you that DuPont is a french multinational which has the offices in the US, nothing else.

    You really need to start thinking about the things you are saying, because you are saying everything wrong.

    And when people tell you that you simply insult them, essentially proving yourself wrong.
     
  11. Luckless
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Luckless Senior Member

    Quarktoo, I'm not asking for 'spoon feeding', I'm asking for you to actually provide backing to your claims.

    The only 'proof' you have shown is that Water + a Chemical = Production of Heat.

    Yes, we do this in Canadian high schools. It is a fairly basic lab where students add chemicals to water and observe the change in temperature. What proof do you have that what is being done in these experiments are any different?

    I would like to believe you, but so far you are holding a pen with a red cap on it, and claiming the pen has blue ink. It may very well have blue ink, but to the rest of us it looks like a red pen. So why don't you try writing with it? (That is, provide PROOF)

    What Verifiable Proof is there that the experiment you presented in that video was anything other than a basic exothermic reaction within the water, using 'energy' stored in the chemicals used in the tests? Energy that would be depleted over time as the reaction runs? How long does the reaction last per X unit of chemical, and Y unit of water?

    What Proof do you have that this is not a scam? Ever hear of the Bre-X scandal? Fudging numbers and out right lies are common tactics used in liberating money from investors. Scientists are not immune to telling a few lies to get a bit of fame or cash, and sometimes they honestly believe they're on the verge of a major break through, so they fudge their numbers a little to get a little more funding so they can drag their dead end science and half cooked theories a little farther while they claw at broken dreams of actually meaning something in the world.

    Also I'll ignore your comments on technology, as it is only in your own mind that technology in the USA is more advanced than what is developed in other parts of the world.
     
  12. quarktoo
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    quarktoo ProSpeller

    If all you got out of your research of Dr. Mills Blacklight Power is that he "add chemicals to water and observe the change in temperature." then you didn't research anything which makes my point that you are a waste of my time.

    Your average Canadian high school teacher isn't even capable of replicating the experiment much less teaching it.

    You don't know what you don't know and you don't know that and have no inclination to change lack of knowing.

    Here genius, these five spoon fulls should keep you fed for life.

    The Bohren Experiment - American Journal of Physics - April 1983

    http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p1.jpg
    http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p2.jpg
    http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p3.jpg
    http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p4.jpg
    http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p5.jpg

    If the US took back all the technology we developed, you would be painting your message to me on the wall of a cave using your own blood and poop as pigment and I would not be bothered by you over the internet.

    Next time you have the urge, could you be a pal and pound it out on a drum, send up some smoke signals or better yet, slash your wrists and write it on a rock with blood? Write often and a lot if you choose the latter.
     
  13. quarktoo
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    quarktoo ProSpeller


    Dearest genius,

    We "usaians" come from all over the world and as such, when we become citizens, we become US citizens.

    Polyphase (not poliphase) was in fact invented by a US citizen named Nikola Tesla who emigrated from in the village of Smiljan in the Croatian Military Frontier of the Austrian Empire and what is now known as Croatia. (Not Jugoslav) He was a subject of the Austrian Empire by birth and later became a US citizen.

    Once they leave a country such as yours, to get away from people such as you, come here and become citizens, they are US citizens. That is what is unique about this country and one thing that makes us better than Chile.

    As for the kevlar, not sure where that comment comes from but you are obviously confused anyway.

    Here rocket surgeon:

    History of Kevlar
    http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2002/edwards/history.htm

    As always, your claims are proven to be lies.

    Hey could you send my buddy Luckless up in Canada a bag of that goat or llama hair? I am only asking for one small bag as I do not want to reduce your gross domestic product and destroy your entire economy and take away your ability to contribute to humanity in the future. I'm pretty sure the blood loss is going to lower his body temp. since those caves can be so cold.

    You are not going to break me, you are only breaking yourself against me. Everyone can see your lies and ignorance exposed over and over.
     
  14. Luckless
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Luckless Senior Member

    For someone who claims to be intelligent, you really are dense aren't you?

    You make posts claiming about someone's free energy project, and when called out on it for proof of the free energy you still refuse to explain or show any proof!

    Why is it so hard to provide proof of something you believe in. Do you understand the meaning of proof?

    From Merriam-Webster

    1 a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning

    3 : something that induces certainty or establishes validity
    4 archaic : the quality or state of having been tested or tried; especially : unyielding hardness
    5 : evidence operating to determine the finding or judgment of a tribunal

    7 : a test applied to articles or substances to determine whether they are of standard or satisfactory quality


    If you were really an expert in any of this it should be easy for you to provide proof that anything you say is worth more than cheap toilet paper.
     

  15. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    What kind of a fool would argue with a conspiracy kook about Tesla? Tesla is a god to the foilhats - I guarantee this guy knows everything from Tesla's shoe size to which hotel put him up when Edison fired him...

    I read, and watched, the other free energy kook, Leedskalnin, ad nauseam. I see him demonstrating springs screwing together several different ways. I read page after page of rambling and there is still no way of telling what he's trying to sell. His perpetual motion holder requires a battery to work, and repeating "double helix" and "cosmic force" over and over doesn't help.

    Even though I can't prove there are electrons, real scientists are convinced. I can only go by observation. I have seen where heating a filament in a vacuum tube and attracting the "electron cloud" towards a positively charged plate can be used to amplify a signal. Attract that same cloud with a high enough voltage and "X-rays" are emitted when these higher energy electrons hit the plate. I know something is making a shadow of bones on a sheet of film. I can't prove what is happening but I'm convinced the explanations given in school make sense.

    I know an MRI scanner makes pictures, but proving the echo we measure is because of the precession of hydrogen protons is beyond us. The people who know this stuff also made an atom bomb just by thinking it through. No amount of imagination or hope could have done that, understanding is the only way.

    Anything pasted here or linked to is more than suspect. That is the "tool of the kook" - make it too idiotic, too divergent from what we were taught in school, and we can't refute their circular arguments and dubious science. Everything is suppressed, the government or industry assassins are trying to "get us" (did you notice that Leedskalnin kept looking at the door? Either reason he would do that is enough for reasonable people to doubt him). If a few thousand of his elderly neighbors in Florida, and kooks, send him the $30 donation he'll be able to promote his next elixir and eat for another year without actually working. In this regard, he is a genius with but a sixth grade education.
     
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