Gaff Rig or Bermuda Rig?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by nwfoust, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member


    Sorry...not in general, regular Sprit sails but in one in the PDF...it looks like the sprit pivots on the mast and is fixed in place so how do you adjust tension on sprit with the end fixed?
     
  2. Bill PKS
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    Bill PKS Junior Member

    iI-14 Spritsail rig

    I guess you may be referring to the PDF on the iI -14' ?
    This sprit is kinda like a Gaff, in that the Peak of the Gaff falls off to leeward unless there is some way to haul the Gaff to windward.
    An advantage of this rig is that maybe for better windward performance, a Line could be attached to the Sprit maybe 1/2 or 2/3rds up the spar for leverage to haul sprit to win'ard . Better than is possible with the typical Gaff ( that mounts considerably higher) .
    This idea is to present a rather large powered main plus a jib, make it as simple as possible, quick and easy to rig, remove, and carry, and use used spars from a Sailfish type rig for testing.
    ( I hope it would be a good rig for beginners. No Boom on the head. )

    Petros commented that the Sail could be made of Polytarp, Tyveck or most any light weight sheet goods ( although Tyvech is slightly breathable).

    I'll look around for some Sunfish spars this week end, and will draw up something to close scale, with details on the fittings, just as an idea.

    Anyway,, it's all fun to fiddle with.

    Bill PKS.

    PS: Just found a fellow yesterday that can do the foam for the hull.
    The objective is to have several foam blanks for hulls to test several Hull shape concepts,,, Kinda like surfboard guys do all kinds of different shapes for various conditions, and preferences.
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If you're new to sailing, adding a sailing rig to this boat isn't probably the wisest course. This is primarily because you have no idea where to place the various elements of the rig and the appendages. You could learn what you need to know, but why bother when you can pick up a used sailor for a few hundred bucks. Not having to worry about the amount of lead, your specific rig needs over it's center of lateral plane and other such issues will not be necessary with a sailboat purchase, but will become head scratching moments, if you attempt to make this row boat into a sailboat. In other words, you'll have to learn a lot more then just sailing, to make this type of conversion, which seems counter intuitive for a novice, to say the least. For what it's worth, in spite of each persons ideas, there's no such thing as "the best rig" for your boat. The best rig is one you feel comfortable with. Since you have no experience, you have no point of reference, so suggestions are meaningless. Buy a small, used sailboat and see if you like it.
     
  4. Bill PKS
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    Bill PKS Junior Member

    PAR
    NW says he is building a " Lumberyard Skiff", and wants to put some kind of sail on it...
    How much fun can he have?
    I have no idea what his hull looks like or what the CLR is, but absolutely believe he should have the " fun" of playing with it and figuring it out.
    a'course, some folks can make a bathtub sail with a bedsheet, broomsticks, and a wash board,, and on a 14' skiff of any sort, rake of the mast and fiddling with the jib, CB or leeboards will forgive most anything with little cost, and anybody'll learn by playing with it.. Can't be no greater satisfaction than getting a skiff you built with your own hands to sail,,, certainly much more than with a "bought" boat of any kind.
    And speaking of that... All the so called experts have been busy designing "tipsy" round bottom sailing skiffs with booms that "scares the want to" out of many young kids with the first try. And you wonder why virtually no young people are sailing?
    Bill PKS
    PS: I'll have some idea sketches of a quickie cheap rig that might be interesting , done shortly and will post.
    ( Gotta be a good swimmer, and have warm water.)
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The original poster has no sailing experience and you (Bill PKS) would like him to also design and install a rig that he hasn't a clue about. hummmmm. The lumber yard skiff doesn't have much "bearing area" though it could be forced to sail with a small rig.

    Sailboats have occupied about 10% of the pleasure boating industry for about a half a century now, so I'm not sure where you're getting "worrisome" information, but maybe you should try to keep up, for the next half a century.
     
  6. Bill PKS
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    Bill PKS Junior Member

    PAR,
    10 % of the industry?
    And you think that’s good???
    I think we have lost a lot of “ Seamenship” without kids messing around in sail boats.
    Now they just want to turn the key.
    If NW is building a skiff, of what ever kind, that shows more inituative that most.
    Somehow I think that the Professionals should be doing everything they can to help encourage sailing (within reasonable limits of safety) rather than trying to discourage them.

    Bill PKS
     
  7. Bill PKS
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    Bill PKS Junior Member

    NW,

    Attached are some sketches of a Sprit rig.
    You can try different Jibs, or Sail Sizes, and move stuff around to suit you.
    I hope this is of interest.
    Have fun.

    Bill PKS
     

    Attached Files:

  8. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You have a funny way of placing words in other peoples mouths. I never said anything about 10% being good at anything, it's just a statement of fact. Again your previous statement "And you wonder why virtually no young people are sailing? " there has never been any comment or concern on my part in this regard, so I'd appreciate it if you quoted me or reserved these comments as your thoughts, not mine.

    I conduct classes in boat repair, restoration, wood working and seamanship when it's my turn at the squadron. In this area there are several restorers, many repair shops and lots of examples of classic old wooden boats (one of the largest areas in the country in fact). You'll find that this is occurring all around the country. The north west has been riding a 20 year revival, the north east hasn't really stopped, nor has the Chesapeake (where I'm original from). The Bay area in northern California and all through southern California, the gulf coast, hurricanes be damned, the great lakes, many places all having viable and of course ever changing seascapes of indoctrination for the next generations. If you can't see this, then you're not active, especially in your area.

    I still think asking a rank novice to install a ham bone sailing rig (like the one you've drawn) on this boat is just promoting frustration.
     
  9. Bill PKS
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    Bill PKS Junior Member

    PAR,

    Sorry PAR ,,,,, when you wrote,
    ”Sailboats have occupied about 10% of the pleasure boating
    industry for about a half a century now, so I'm not sure where
    you're getting "worrisome" information, but maybe you should try
    to keep up, for the next half a century.” ,
    I thought you were observing Sailing was doing great vs. my "worrisome information”. As I don't think 10% is very good, I must have misunderstood.

    I hope your classes are constructive and supportave of new Sailors .

    Regarding my “ham bone sailing rig”,, attached is a PDF of a Spritsail Skiff from the NC Maritime Museum. This is a traditional type which has been sailing very well for maybe a 100 yrs. on the Carolina Coast. While I readily admit to the limitations of my drawing abilities, I am attempting to depict an adaptation of this well proven rig, using economical readily available materials, which should be easily adaptable to a 14’ hull, for a fellow to get his skiff sailing. Of course, hull form, and rig balance will affect performance,, but he sounds like a creative open-minded fellow.
    ( You ought to sail on one sometime,, you might be surprized.)

    Anyway, I’m just trying to be supportive and encouraging for a new sailor that is showing great initiative.

    Bill PKS.
     

    Attached Files:


  10. Bill PKS
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    Bill PKS Junior Member

    lewisboats ,

    Reading back thru this opus, I'm not sure your question was answered.
    I had responded about the peak of the main falling off to leeward, but you may have been asking about the tack?

    The proposed rig uses Sunfish spars which are connected with eye rings at the Tack.
    As it may be that the Sunfish eyes would not be strong enough to support the Sprit, a Snotter ( as drawn in a later PDF) could be used.
    A snotter is a line used as a hinge, with one end attached to the mast by what ever means, and the other eye receives a notch or pin at the foot of the Sprit,
    One configuration would have a Large Eye that will fit over the Lower Yoke Bracket will work, but would be " fixed " vertically.
    If more vertically adjustable tensioning is desired, you could use the method of the traditional Spritsail, where the Snotter is formed to provide a loop or two that will tighten around the Base Mast as pressure of the Sprit tightens the loop(s) around the mast. This allows the Sprit pin eye to be adjustable up or down by sliding the loop(s) up or down the mast. Traditional masts are wood that provide a bit of friction as the loop(s) tighten on the mast. With a slick aluminum Base Mast, some type of friction tape, grooves or bands may be needed to provide a no slip area so the loop will stay where you want it.
    Of course, there are many ways to make this connection.

    Does this answer your question?

    Bill PKS

    Have fun sailing!!
     
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