Future of Commercial Fishing?

Education means nothing if someone (less educated but not stupid) can make a big profit of it. Or you mean...education for the politicians? Then I guess you are right. We need to get rid of the "smart" politicians and get intelligent ones, but I guess it is going to take a while.

Here I strongly disagree. Any method, targeted to catch some kind of fish but that brings harm to the ecological system where they live should be banned. Trouty has given the example with the Scallop trawlers and I can give you the example of the Huelva (south of Spain) trawlers. There are a lot of them (still) living difficult times, many of them poaching in Portuguese waters.
They fish in shallow waters with sand bottom, so they drag their huge nets in the sand, revolving the ground and damaging the entire eco-system, killing in the process lots of marine life. They catch in their nets (and sell, I don't know how) tiny fish (baby sardines and baby mackerel). You can eat them in all the local restaurants.
Of course, it's a suicidal course, they are in trouble to earn a living now, and they will finish bankrupt and unemployed, after killing all their stocks.

Their neighbors in Portugal have ghosen another strategy, they have taken advantage of the reasonable conditions offered by the EC to "finish" with their (large) boats and have opted for a lot less industrial fishing. Now they fish in very small boats (1 to 3 fishermen by boat) using traditional "artes" ,that are a lot more enjoyable for them and a lot less detrimental to the ecological system. They don't need to pay huge money to mortgage the boat, the diesel and several crew members, they are the owners of their boats and don't have big bills to pay.
Their success (and their ecological sustainability) is measured by their huge numbers. Every time I pass in front of Faro/Olhão I have to be very careful because there is no way you can avoid them. Hundreds of small boats that are scattered from the coast to 3 or 5 miles out (shallow deeps).

That's a story of success that will end when the EC finish with the Moratoria that prevents the Spanish from fishing in our waters. Then the Spanish will come with their trawlers and in short time, they will make this coastal waters as deserted as their own, just postponing for a while their suicidal course.

So Guillermo, that's why I don't think that "...its is not a matter of the goodness or badness of a particular fishing system...". I think that in this case is just that.

 

I agree entirely.

It's not the method that's bad, its the scale.

Take long lining for example. If the line is a few hundred yards long, that's one thing. Having one miles long is quite another. By limiting the capability of the boats, one can hope to either limit the range of the fleet or limit its power. Room for stores for a long outing, presumably under sail (the one way to get around a strict hp limit as far as vessel size goes), the less room and capacity there is to store fish.

Imagine a dragger that was limited to only 50 hp. Its net would be ridiculously small. And the boat would probably be slow too, having only, say, 1 to 2 hp per ton to work with. It would take longer, maybe 1/3d to 1/2, longer to get out to the fishing grounds and back.

Besides, if the theory of 'peak oil' is to be believed, most of these high hp machines will be swept from the seas due to ridiculously high fuel costs in a few years anyway.

The guy who started this whole thing wanted a sword boat that had a 12,000 gal fuel capacity. Imagine him gassing up at $10 a gallon. under those conditions, one or two bad fishing runs could bankrupt him .

A corporate owned larger fleet could cover that risk better by spreading it over more boats. But shareholders demand steady returns and/or ever enhanced company value for their investment. A couple of boats comming home with empty tanks and empty holds a couple of times could do immense damage in that regard.

If this happens, and I really hope it doesn't (I live in the motor city, after all), skippers who go to either sail powered or even sail assisted vessels could hold the long term economic advantage and out last their more muscle bound brothers. (Maybe we should start dusting off our 'T' squares.)

This might also add an advantage to poorer countries who, argueably, need the fish more than we do, because such fishing vessels will be much more labor intensive.

Bob

BTW. If you want the bejesus scared out of you, Google(R) 'peak oil'. If even half of it is true, we are all in for a real world of hurt. Even Stephen King himself couldn't write anything scarier. Sweet dreams.

 

Nah! You don't get it right. Galicians see the Spanish (Castelhanos) the same way the Scottish see the English. ...Now you get it?
Of course they have not done so well as the Portuguese, that have succeeded in remaining independent, but have done a lot better than the Scottish, cause they have succeeded in maintaining, well and alive, their own language, and their culture is getting stronger everyday. They have even managed to win (some years ago) the Spanish championship and are known to pissing everybody, particularly the US (do you know that Fidel de Castro is a Gallician)

Of course everybody knows that Portuguese and Gallicians are brothers...So

 

So the Gallicians will rip off the Portugese much the same way as the Scottish (who have two languages apart from the 'bad' English they speak - Gaelic -stolen from the Picts [Celtic] and Scots which is a made up language mixing bad English with pure giberish) have and are ripping off the English - it is now illegal to state this in England as it is to call the Spanish barefaced thieves or kettles black, all of which unfortunately are true! Ask a Cornish Fisherman about this! They too have been robbed by their so called fellow Celts the Scots! In their (Scots) own outlandish tongue "dinna trust 'em"

 

Paulo,
I'm still convinced fishing methods aren't good or bad by themselves (Except some kind of bizarre ones, as fishing with explosives, i.e.), but it's the use we made of them. As Sarpii says: Scale. And also intensity. Even bottom trawling may not be that harmful if done over the proper grounds, for the proper species and using proper nets for a proper period of time. Probably what's happening with the Huelva fleet is that they are too many fishermen with too many powerful boats, fishing too many time (whatever the waters).

I'm most interested in knowing more about the Portuguese strategy you mention of swapping big boats for small ones in the wake of the CE regulations. I know those regulations quite well and do not remember one encouraging that kind of boats swapping. Are you sure?

Maybe the reason is rather that the Portuguese bigger boats had no grounds to go fising, so owners took the funds from the CE to scrap them and on the other hand there were licenses still available for fishing with "artes", previously not used or abandoned now used because the moratory on the spanish fleet rised the stocks in the area (?). In this case most probably fishermen are not the same in one case and the other, I suspect.

I'm most interested in knowing more about this matter, so if you can tell me more or where I can gather more info, I'd appreciate that.

My knowledge of the fisheries of the Algarve coast is poor, but I have some better info about the Portuguese North coast from Porto to the Minho river. I have been talking with their associations because of certain mussel farms to be stablish there. The impression I got is that the close to coast fisheries (up to 6 miles, the zone where bottom trawling cannot be done, probably the same as in Algarve) are not rendible enough and fishermen are dissapearing anyhow (Paradigmatic in Esposende). I would love to talk with you about all this personally, if you finally decide to come over to the Galician Rias in summer.

(By the way: Thanks for the hand with the Walrus issue. I cannot get offended by him and for sure I'm not going to enter that kind of xenophobic discussion, as I love Cornwall and have excellent friends there)

 

You could not be more wrong. Galician as a language is older and it is in the origin of the Portuguese language:

In medieval times, in the region that today is Portugal, there were two main dialects: Galician-Portuguese (spoken in the Northwestern region of the Iberian Peninsula) and Luso-Mozarabic (spoken in the region between the Mondego and Tagus Rivers, which was under Muslim control). In the 12th and 13th century, Portuguese conquered permanently that Muslim territory and that caused the two dialects to merge, giving birth to the Portuguese language.
Anyway, till the XV century, Portuguese was very close to Galician and even today, if you go to rural border land, I can tell you that differences are really small.
There is even a small village, many hundred years old, that is half in Portugal, half in Galicia. So you can imagine their language… it’s an historic village with an historic language...

I hope you are joking . I bet you don’t really know Spain…and if you know Iberia and have that opinion about the many different cultures that people the land….then I guess you are a strange guy.

 

[secretly Vega your right, but it winds gilly up tho' he sez not so what the Hell)

I know nada, tho' half of my family live there!

 

Guillermo, obviously you know more about fishing than I do…but still I can not understand your point…. Look at the numbers of this research:

http://www.ualg.pt/fcma/acien/biopescas/discalg.htm

They say that fish trawlers throw away 59% of all the fish that comes in the nets; Boats that fish with nets in a circle throw away 3% of the fish (undesired species).

These numbers show clearly that trawlers are not environmental friendly, that they kill more than they use…and the destruction and killing on the sea grounds are not taken in account here.

How can you say that “fishing methods aren't good or bad by themselves”? For me, it is clear, that a method that kills more than they use, is a bad method.

That is not made directly, but they offer money for a destruction of boats and they also give incentives for building boats, if they are the right kind of boats.

The intention is sustainability, fishing in our own waters. So you kill environmental bad boats and you build environmental friendly boats, changing to more environmental friendly fishing techniques, like the rapa (circle with nets with a small boat). The result is mostly the scraping of big and old boats and the building of new smaller units.

http://www.uniaonaval.pt/port/embarcacao25.html
http://www.uniaonaval.pt/port/embarcacao23.html

This is also true. We have a lot of boats that used to fish in the Mauritania and because there is no more fish there, they are fishing now in far away places like the Indian Ocean and South Africa…and these are not really big boats…I guess around 30m Boats.
We don’t have really big fishing boats anymore. The only ones were those that went to New Foundland to catch cod fish, and they cannot go anymore, so they were scraped.

Yes you are right, the number of fishermen is decreasing, there are not enough fish, but that has nothing to do with bottom trawling. Fishermen here don’t like the system and there are few trawlers. I believe that government don’t like it either and I think that no more licenses are going to be issued to bottom trawling, or even costal trawling.

About new small boats, I think that you can see a lot more in Algarve, because the sea is a lot more calm than in the west coast. In the west coast every year the lives of several fishermen are lost (In December I have changed my boat from Figueira da Foz to Nazaré. I have sailed with 4 to 5 meters steep waves, 25 knots of wind….and they were fishing) …so, very small boats…

I hope this can prove useful:

http://www.qca.pt/pos/mare.asp
http://www.qca.pt/pos/relatorios.asp#mare
http://www.qca.pt/pos/download/2000/mare.pdf
http://www.qca.pt/pos/download/relatorios_2003/MARE_Relat2003.pdf
http://www.ualg.pt/fcma/cfrg/pt/projects.shtml
http://www.ualg.pt/fcma/cfrg/eng/papers.shtml
http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/DOCREP/006/X8498E/X8498E00.HTM
http://www.igp.pt/consulta_docs.php?Id=366
http://ipimar-iniap.ipimar.pt/indexvale.html
http://ioc.unesco.org/oceanportal/browse.php?cat=238

 

Vega,
Yes, bottom trwaling is not a selective fishing method and can be very harmful if done in an aggressive way (rolling balls or chains at the bottom of the net, trawling in sensitive bottoms with lots of fragile species -sponges, coral and others- that may be damaged, etc). Also bycatch for certain fisheries, as those of crustaceans, can be very high (60+%). I'm not defending the uncontrolled use of bottom trawling nets for every fishery, as you may imagine.

But there are also fisheries with small bycatchs (in the order of 25%), like the "pescada" (Merluccius), i.e., that can be fished sustainable with this method using the proper selective nets, in my opinion.

Other fishing methods, even among the traditional "artes", if badly used can also be very aggressive. Let's think about gill nets or drifting nets. I'm fond of spearfishing and I've checked personally the devastating effects of incontrolled fishing with no selective gill nets in coastal waters.

So, once again, I still believe the problem is mostly the bad or good use we do of the several fishing method.

By the way: There is an interesting WWF initiative to promote investigation on reducing bycatch at: http://www.smartgear.org/index.php

The small fishing portuguese boats in the links you posted, are much the same as the ones we have in Galicia in big numbers too. In Galicia there are something like 5800 fishing boats and 1200 acquaculture auxiliaries, nearly half of them in the Ria de Vilagarcía, where I have my professional office.

Thanks a lot for all the info on the Portuguese legislation. I'll study it carefully.

 

Vega

I think you are basically right about trawlingbeing an unsustainable method of fishing - that is very wastefull of the resource.

Having said that - and admitting, that is, the public position I hold on Trawling as a method of fishing...

The trawlers themselves ARE attempting to address the environmental issues.

For example - the prawn trawlers here draw strong criticism from environmental groups for by catch of turtles (which drown in the nets).

As a result thet are now trialling / fitting, turtle exclusion devices to trawls...with some success I might add, (albeit not eliminating the problem - rather reducing it substatially).

That said, they would still need exclusion devices for all the other unwanted species by catch. Sadly - lots of that dead bycatch (trawler trash) is juvenile fishstocks that havent reached the age of spawning, so fish recruitment levels are adversely affected by the trawl method.

About the only "positive" of the trawler trash issue - is that the trash does in fact make it's way back into the oceanic food cycle - and benefit species which learn to folow the trawlers to eat said trash.

Some of the biggest meanest Yellowfin Tuna you will ever find follow prawn trawlers around!

Soooo - it's possibly not as bad as it at first sounds - when we look at the trawling methodology, however - in a perfect world - we could do without it....

I am trying to imagine a pizza without prawns!

Maybe I'm not 100% toally convinced yet!

Cheers!

 

Ok then ban the lot! Feed the fish 'Soylant Green' for a couple of years that should solve a few problems!

But seriously all this bitching ain't helping any is it! Lets get out there and do something ('decommission trawlers' with rams for a start!)

 

OK.nobody weak.just somebody strong, nobody lonely just somebody gone ,,,,some Engish dude wrote that,I have heard nothing but good ideas from you guys,why not at least let our voices be heard,,,,,we got nothin to lose.lets do it before walruss blowes a 50 amp fuse(nother Engish dude) hell Ill even volenteer for something ! longliner45

 

Yebbbutt!

What to do and where?

Define the problem

Brainstorm the solutions,

Then take action.

Just where is it we want all these trawlers banned? Worldwide?

Whats the best way?

License buy back schemes?

Funded by?

Recreational fishing license fees?

Lottsa work needed before you rush off to conquyer the world I'd suggest!

Having led such a nation wide campaign downunder (to save the marlin) (with some limited success i might add) I can't tell you how much work is involved, and how easily your plans can be thwarted!

But I admire the desire to do something.

At least not twiddling thumbs while rome burns so to speak!

Cheers!

 

Hats off to you trouty;at least you tried with the marlins.modified nets that spit out turtles-that is good,I still would like to see a central comitty or czar of fishing,but dont know wear the leaders of the free world are on this matter, the fisherman are the ones that will take charge of this matter and what they do will matter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,with hurricans more frequent and powerfull the gulf of Mexico has gotton more rest lately,and its coming back around in a couple of months ! I think the economical strain will be a factor.Maybe a world wide boycott of fish?

 

What I am trying to say, regarding Industrial Fishing done by large trawlers, versus traditional coastal fishing is very well stated here:
“, industrial vessels trying to cope with a shortage of resources may progressively encroach on inshore areas previously exploited by or reserved for traditional fishers. In doing so, they take resources away, damaging productive habitats, destroying fishing gear and causing accidents.”

Ethical issues in fisheries FAO http://www.fao.org/documents/

I also believe that for a successful conservation of marine resources it is fundamental that fisheries will be integrated into coastal area management :“When deciding how coastal resources (for example, water, land, etc) should be used or accessed, the people, including fishers, who live in the area, and their ways of living, should be considered, and their opinions taken into account in the planning process.

….Countries should recognize that responsible fisheries policy requires a sound scientific basis. Therefore, countries should make research facilities available and encourage training of young technicians…
In order to conduct research, countries should monitor the conditions of fish and their habitats and watch for any changes occurring in these conditions. Data should be gathered on the effects of different types of fishing gear on target fish populations and on the general environment. This research is particularly important when a country plans to commercially introduce new gear or fishing techniques. “

And most of all, I believe that the “Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries”, adopted unanimously on 31 October 1995 by the FAO Conference, (or any other global agreement that serves the same purposes) should not be a “non-mandatory” document, but an international mandatory, a legal set of principles that would concern every country.

After all the sea belongs to all and it is neither reasonable nor acceptable that some countries, in detriment of all the others, can endanger the renewal and sustainability of living sea resources.


“The Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries lays out principles and international standards of behaviour for responsible practices that aim to ensure the effective conservation, management and development of living aquatic resources. The principles and standards take into account all relevant biological, technological, economic, social, environmental and commercial aspects and allow due respect for the ecosystem and for biodiversity.”

Key articles from the Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries:

• Article 6.1. States and users of living aquatic resources should conserve aquatic ecosystems. The right to fish carries with it the obligation to do so in a responsible manner so as to ensure effective conservation and management of the living aquatic resources.
• Article 6.2. Fisheries management should promote the maintenance of the quality, diversity and availability of fishery resources in sufficient quantities for present and future generations in the context of food security, poverty alleviation and sustainable development …
• Article 6.13. States should … ensure that decision-making processes are transparent and achieve timely solutions to urgent matters. States, in accordance with appropriate procedures, should facilitate consultation and the effective participation of industry, fishworkers, environmental and other interested organizations in decision-making with respect to the development of laws and policies related to fisheries management, development, international lending and aid.
• Article 6.18. Recognizing the important contributions of artisanal and small-scale fisheries to employment, income and food security, States should appropriately protect the rights of fishers and fishworkers, particularly those engaged in subsistence, small-scale and artisanal fisheries, to a secure
and just livelihood, as well as preferential access, where appropriate, to traditional fishing grounds and resources in the waters under their national jurisdiction.

http://www.fao.org/figis/servlet/static?xml=CCRF_prog.xml&dom=org&xp_nav=4

As a renewable natural resource, fish can be harvested year after year if countries have wise policies in place and if responsible fishing and utilization practices are followed. Similarly, with aquaculture, fish farming that does not harm the environment should be promoted because this type of culture will make important social and economic contributions to farming communities and the economies of their countries.

If the Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries is implemented successfully by all people who are involved in fisheries and aquaculture it can be expected that fish and fisheries products will be available for consumption by present and future generations. In fact, current generations have a moral obligation to ensure that they do not reduce the supplies of fish available for future generations by careless and excessive use today.

If all the world’s nations unite in pursuing responsible fishing practices, there will be ample fish supplies for many generations to come. http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/docrep/003/x9066e/x9066e00.htm

Sorry for the long post…I hope that it will be of interest at least for some.