Fully Electric Cargo Ship for Amazon River (Boat Design: 1st Post)

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by FullyElectricAM, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Gonzo, you are right. There are different manufactures. Lithium and Lithium is basically all the same, but the anode and cathode makes quite a difference. But the mentioned packs are of a very acceptable quality. We were just giving this OP a solution that it in principle can be done. Bert
     
  2. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    Bertku you say you don't have time yet you filled a page without answering the points raised at all!
    I don't (nor anyone else I think) argue that a diesel can produce high torque at very low rpm - like electric motor can. My point was that it is not important at all in typical boat use to be able do such thing. Its a common pro-electric driveline argument that you need less electric hp when it really isn't so.
    There are two situations where the claim has merit.
    1) often electric motors are rated at constant power rating. They can run at this rate 24/7. Some ice engines are reported at max hp that is not a constant duty rating. In these cases indeed electric motor can give more. Naturally any kind of diesel to be installed to a ship is also rated at constant duty.
    2) electric motors rating really is rating of heat dissipation. How much current can you run through begore the motor coocks. As such the motor can often be used short times at higher than rated power.

    The fact that torque band is flat is really not relevant for a boat. The torque required to spin the prop goes up with the rpm. The very high torque for low rpm of an e-motor provides no advantage in normal use.
     
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  3. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    And for the record: I am not against progress or new solutions nor against new energy sources. Quite the contrary.

    But I do get my hair up when the combination is this:
    -wants to design a 200ft ship themselves to save money
    -talk about million dollar project with no project management
    -only count the exciting costs (typical for new energy projects. For example you could only count the cost of solar panels but fully ignore installation, other structures required, design, infrastructure etc.)
    -ignore negative feedback as naysayers (even when the negative feedback has merits).
    -believe in any positive just because its nice to hear

    New energy is challenging and marginals small.
     
  4. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    This.
     
  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Not knowing anything about the von Karman-Gabrielli frontier, I go to onlineconversion.com and it tells me that 50kw is equal to 67hp.

    http://www.onlineconversion.com/power.htm

    A 200 ton ship maneuvering around the Amazon River on 67hp sounds a little iffy to me. Even doubling to 134hp seems chancy.
     
  6. BertKu
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    A quicky.

    I have answered all your questions.

    Keep it to what I have said. sensor Brushless motor, preferable outrunner with 30 Kw each 8 motors of which some to be retractable. A outrunner is easier to have the motor water cooled through the stator, which is static. The magnets are turning and don't get so hot.

    Also A brushless motor has only up to 10% heat produced versus a Diesel up to 40% and more. 10% of 30Kw is easy to have it water cooled. Refer to speedboat somewhere in California.

    What I cannot judge, whether this person has the drive and will power to make such new project it right trough to the end.

    So you accept the bet and donate that OP lithium batteries?
    Bert
     
  7. BertKu
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Sorry SAM SAM, Thanks. I did not see that I had some support. I also think with the fast currents on the Amazon that 300 Kw spread over 8 motors will be
    a better option. Bert
     
  8. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Well, I was more interested in seeing how 67 hp or < can move a 200 ton ship around the Amazon River.
     
  9. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Without the (probably estimated the 4 to 6 knots) currents in calm water, it could do the job. Bert
     
  10. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    We should keep to the facts. The OP talks about a 89 feet boat and not a 200 feet project. Quite a difference. Bert
     
  11. Waterwitch
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    Waterwitch Senior Member

  12. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    and yup my bad. meant 200 ton not ft...
     
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  13. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    ...got back home after a while out on the water.

    I see that his Facebook page is down and has abandoned this forum, his "Naval Architect" (with no website nor contact info) supporter seems to have flown the coop,and this makes me quite happy.

    As I said previously: It is annoying-but not surprising-that when spending other people's money,the laws of physics and business are often ignored by the spenders.

    Thing is,in my investment career I have seen many thousands-if not ten thousand or more- investment ideas,start ups,companies looking for funding.
    So my BS sensor is cranked right up. I've sent many emails to fraud departments in the US and Canada.
    What you typically get:
    -a large percentage are just pump and dumps and/or using shelf corporations to scam people out of their money.
    -another large percentage are just crazy but with a modicum of decent intentions. The initiator still wants the maximum benefits to the detriment of the investor.
    -some may be the wrong time
    -a few are OK ideas but the people behind them are no good for the project
    -a very small percentage are great ideas.

    This Amazon battery powered freighter,IMO is a mix of the first two.

    And in fact the MO is the same as a couple others in the last years:
    -a guy wanted to build a huge cat,all solar,all hydroponic food production and he had rich people who wanted to fund him but he couldn't tell us who, as they all wanted privacy
    -another had an idea for a new type of boat and manufacturing process that would revolutionize boating. Once again,he had rich mentors who didn't want publicity.

    If you enter in variations of: electric cargo ship amazon river... this very thread pops up to the top.
    Which means that we have likely saved someone a lot of money,from not investing in this.

    Gentlemen,our work here is done.
     
  14. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi West v
     

  15. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi West van Vancouver I was like you, also away and only now able to comment as follow:

    a) Although I agree with most of what you have said, I feel that it is not the task of the forum members to save people money, but to come up with solutions for a particular design problem, presented to us. If somebody is so stupid not too check somebody's credentials or abilities before parting with his money, well that is not up to us.

    b) the topic electric propulsion is more and more becoming of interest to many members. Last week I was in Holland and more and more small harbours do allow only electric propulsion (non fumes) yachts/boats in their harbour. There is some discussion going on, that in 2025 - 2030 only non-fumes vehicles are allowed in Holland. Whether that is realistic is still to be seen. California did it.

    c) Although maybe highly theoretical, I had a great interest in how this OP could be helped with a solution for a larger boat with electrical propulsion and batteries. Although 200 tons is not realistic, but 20 tons could have been a more acceptable goal for this problem of cleaning pollution of rivers and waterways.

    I hope you forgive me by expressing my views. Maybe I start a thread "Electrical concept for a 20 ton riverboat".

    Bert
     
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