Fuel economy discussion...more important now than ever!?

Schade... On the top line of that home page given by Nordic, there's a click-through for languages, with English being one of the group.

Chris

 

OK Chris - found it, and was about to announce that I opened my eyes and saw the light Thanks.... Sadly the engine options are too wide, also kinda heavy? - - - the hulls are 600mm beam at wl and up till chamfer means less than 550 at a squeeze - so looks at the moment electric and engine higher up.....

"Best laid plans of mice and men......."? Thanks all...

 

Masalai,

I don't know if you already belong to this group, http://www.steamradio.com/mailman/listinfo/multihulls
but they are typically a fairly high-end bunch of multihull enthusiasts with big boats. The discussions tend to coalesce around the needs for boats in the 30-60' range and there have been some very good discussions in the last year, or so, regarding diesel electric installations, engine/genset speccing, weight concerns, etc.

You may wish to join the group and make use of the fairly extensive archives regarding your interests.

 

Will give it a try, Thanks again...

 

thanks tad ,,the old eyes aint what they used to be,,,could you put a small mast on your boat??

 

on that trip i was acting as chase vehicle to my son and his buddys 61 and 66 beetles going to a car show so we stayed off the freeway and ran at between 55 and 60mph.
Steve.

 

I had a great uncle who never had a car licence. He cycled to and from regular work until he was 65 yo and then cycled around the neighborhood for part time work paid and unpaid until he was in his late eighties. When he fully retired he still continued to cycle for local shopping and punting on the horses until in his nineties. He was still cycling until he went into aged care in mid nineties and passed away soon after.

His weight remained unchanged for all the years I knew him - around 65kg.

You do not see too many fat people in their nineties. I believe quality of life as the body ages is strongly related to health and fitness. If people build fitness into their daily routine at a young age the majority will be able to follow active pursuits until well into their nineties - cancer and other nasties aside.

We have become too dependent on powered devices for our own good. Predictions are that the next generation will have shorter lifespan than the current generation because a large proportion eat too much and exercise too little.

On balance I believe society would benefit significantly by moving back to greater reliance on human powered devices. Even if it is taking stairs rather than escalators or elevators:
http://www.goodexperience.com/broken/i/04/02/america-fitness-s.jpg

Rick W.

 

Rick I completely agree with you.

Where we may part company is with the idea of compelling people to behave in a certain manner that someone else thinks is going to be "good" for them. I may even agree that it WILL be "good" for them it's just the idea of making people comply by removing all alternatives that bothers me. This would be like shutting down all the elevators and escalators to force people to take the stairs. All for a good cause, but compulsive none the less.


Michael

 

The interesting part of this, if one were to be a healthy lifestyle oriented, company owner... One could simply take all the elevators out of service, save one for large freight, saying that they cost too much to maintain and operate. The employees would be forced to take the stairs when necessary, or get another job.

I believe that the health cost burden on employers who do not "encourage" their employees through such means, will skyrocket into the "can't afford it" region and it will cascade throughout the working world quite quickly (as we are already seeing)

Could one then take the position that someone else is deciding as to how you run your life and your health?

Then, there's this scenario should the US implement a national health care program... You get yourself into a health problem due to an overly sedentary lifestyle and you are then obligated to pay a premium beyond what is typically provided at no cost, until such time as you get yourself back into some measure of a healthy status, once again.

That posture also has a degree of assumption being dictated by others.

Eventually, we in the US, are going to see these things done via democratic means at the ballot box, leaving only the most staunch of libertarians to voice an objection. Yes, they will have their Constitutional opportunity to be heard, but it won't make much difference.

I'd personally prefer to see it done voluntarily, but I also know that isn't going to happen globally within the culture I have chosen to live for the present. We've just had it too good for too long and the patterns are pretty much set until some catstrophic event takes place to change things.

To me, it's all about connected activism unless you like being told what to do.

 

Current proposed all inclusive health insurance plans seem to be moving in the direction opposite to that which you describe. Most people have health insurance but ***** about the high cost. Universal health care is sold as helping the uninsured who generally can't or don't want to afford it, yet is poised to raise rather than lower the cost. Mandated coverage with subsidized rates for the deserving is the general theme. Politicians come up with all sorts of hot air about containing costs etc. etc. but past history makes that a rather poor bet.

So normal folks who ***** about the high cost of thier insurance are going to be asked to subsidize the less fortunate, unless they themselves can find a scapegoat to pin thier higher costs on. The flip side of cheaper rates for the more fit are higher rates for the less fit. It is hard to imagine poor but unfit people being charged higher rates in a climate of subsidized coverage.

In the end, if employers are pinned to the wall, I would not be surprised to see less employees and more contractors or capital invested in labor saving machinery to eliminate more employees.

But health insurance aside, I would like to see more research investigating hull dynamics and improved mechanical effiency propelling powered boats. I enjoy sailing but I enjoy powered vessels more. I have faith in human ingenuity and have great respect for inherent human liberty. Your milage may vary.

 

I think that is the exact definition of insurance, those that pay premiums, but don't make claims, provide the funds for those that do make claims. Eventually everyone gets their years where they recieve more than that years premium. I thought that was how it was supposed to work?

 

Alternate Solutions

On the this issue, I'd like to commend the interesting work of one of our thread participants, Rick Willoughby, who has been tossing around ideas for high efficiency hull forms for some time now. Even though most of his work seems to be in the Human Powered realm, his studies will be very applicable to larger vessels. The work that Rick has done will prove itself valuable far into the future.

To that end, I worked on a couple of ideas for high efficiency, slender hulled trimarans for coastal work. I showed them very casually last year on this site and recently hauled them back out of the "they got filed" status, as I got an email from a gentleman who wishes to build the larger version. At the risk of being redundant...

The renderings below show two boats, which are similar in appearance, differing in their overall length and carrying capacity. Both boats are meant to be trailered easily, avoiding costly slip fees. Both boats are designed to run on quite small outboard engines in their initial form with future development work being done in the direction of electric drive systems and/or a compact bio-diesel setup.

The original intent of the two craft was to create a boat to be used by my surfing friends who like to explore the coastline for the secret surf breaks that are not, otherwise, accessible from the land. Knowing the surf culture, from a lifetime of participating in the sport in SoCal, inspired me to design these boats. They had to have a certain degree of unique styling so they could be run as inexpensively as possible (seeing as how most surfers are about as frugal as a guy can get)

They are drawn for multichine marine ply construction in the stitch and tape style so that the average guy can take on the project and get terrific results. The aka beams are a simple, glass reinforced box beam design with the larger boat getting a simple, folding ama hinging system for highway legal towing.

If one were to compare the boats to something in the automotive world, I'd say that the small one for two people at 24' LOA (working name of Javelin) is a like a two door sports coupe model. The bigger one, a four-place design of 30' LOA (working name of SurfBus) is more like a lively four-door sedan. They are not meant to set any speed records on the water. More, they will offer very really good fuel mileage at efficient and comfortable motoring speeds of 12-15 knots.

A by-product of the design is that they would make for excellent harbor cruising machines for day motoring and casual lake touring. I pictured the SurfBus out for a sunset cruise with two couples aboard, pulling over at a favorite restaurant, tying-up for dinner and then taking a leisurely drive back to their own dock on a warm summer evening. Maybe that's just the 59-year-old guy in me talking...?

Anyway, it would be great to hear any comments and/or questions regarding either design.

Chris

 

Maybe this is not too welcome, but those monohulls that need "training wheels" just leave me cold - Just does not seem right????

 

Chris,
Indeed I can't begin to say enough about how generous Rick was with his time helping me learn more about fuel effiency and my boat.

Your trimaran looks like it is taking the long waterline route to higher displacement speeds with the floats added to give it some stability. Can the bridgedeck be expanded to give the thing some more room or does the extra weight etc. negate the concept?

Westfield,
I must have done a poor job communicating my point. But no bother, greater minds than mine have foundered on the rocks of the health care situation. My health, at least my mental health, will be better served by better boats.

 

Actually, it's fine that you hold that opinion. One of my close friends says just about the same thing. It's a fairly committed design exercise and likely not for everyone, but it does give me a kind of sounding board balance as to how things are absorbed in the boating community.

Rick also ran some "numbers" for me on the SurfBus design. I was trying to get settled on the best outboard engine package for the speed envelope and was just too booked at the time to get friendly with Michlet and Godzilla. Rick gave me a nice spread within which to work and I'm very appreciative.

Yes, I am looking for the longest, skinniest hull for the job at hand, as long as it has a reasonable trailering capability. So, there was a big hanging sword over the whole works as a design restriction. Too long and the trailer hassle really kicks-in for an owner and also restricts any dry storage parking options. What point is it to have a boat if you don't get excited to go use it?

Both boats have some fudge factor in the displacement category, so maybe the topsides could be massaged just a bit to that side of things. I'll have to take a look.