Frigging around with the Rigging

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by masalai, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    This thread is for the RIGGERS, and the Numpties (like me)? who are wont to ask dumb questions...

    In the case of a "Hitch-hiker rig", on a cruising / live aboard cat, (comprising 2 genoas' - 1 to each bow, & a "blade" midships from threequarter up, and in the interests of KISS, are lower shrouds & spreaders really necessary, and how does "spectra" standing rigging compare with SS or other options....?

    For an old fart, would roller-furling be an advantage over hanked to forestays?
     
  2. BHOFM
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    BHOFM Senior Member

    Depends on how much you have to pay Hank??
     
  3. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    Doubt I could afford to feed an extra mouth even a slave (except for Lovely Lady / spouse..... who is neither slave of cheap)
     
  4. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    You have to use soft hanks with spectra, definite two handed operation for the Precourt style by the looks of it. I have soft hanks on the SW24 ala Etchell/J 24 style tape and press stud, I quite like them. Obviously a SS head stay for a furler... One thing about synthetics is that once you have the dead eyes etc redoing your rigging is easy... its easier to splice than double braid. Less weight aloft (critical not prolly?), UV exposure issue? I would guess they give more warning of failure than SS but then the head stay is well up there on the candidate list for failure and you will prolly have SS and a furler. I actually don't mind sail handling that much and I do find some aspects of furling head sails a bit limiting. I like good boom furling mains but thats not an issue 4 U.

    Ape ramblings.... :D
     
  5. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    I have a "funny feeling" about conductivity pointing up high (carbon sticks, ss wires & lighting cables) more so when I am parked as opposed to passage-making.....

    My enthusiasm for roller furling is strongly influenced by 14+ hours off the Abrolhos in a gale with a broken roller reefing system.... and other things awry.
     
  6. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    alan white Senior Member

    I like a wire luff roller furling setup because you can drop it with the halyard.
    Used to be headsails were bigger relative to the main due to certain rules I guess. Then roller furling was necessary since the jib was so big.
    I'd rather drop the whole sail just as if it was a hanked on type.
    Furlers are cheaper and simpler than reefers. No extrusions, no complicated installation.
    Depends, I guess, on the size of the jib relative to the mains'l. If you don't need to reef the jib, use a furler.
    The wire luff roller reefing setup rolls up and also drops faster than a hanked-on type.

    Alan
     
  7. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    The shape of roller reefing headsails is always appalling, only useful off the breeze IMO. On a std rig I'd be looking to run a 100% furler, heavy weather gear on an inner forestay with no furling and provision for a rolling screecher from the mast head for off the wind.

    Got a pikture of this rig you like Mas?
     
  8. RHough
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    RHough Retro Dude

    Spectra is not a good choice for standing rigging IMNSHO.

    Spectra 'creeps' and does not hold tension settings.

    The real problem the lighter weight myth. :)

    Spectra is only lighter *for the same breaking strength*. Uncovered Spectra is marginally lighter for the same *stretch* as steel wire.

    Spectra and the other fancy lines get their strength from the molecular structure. They have very long chain molecular structure, you can think of the long molecules like turns on a winch ... greater area in contact the more friction and the less stretch. There are two problems. The creep is cause by the molecules slipping a bit each time the are under load ... Spectra gets longer over time ... When it is longer the diameter is reduced and the line is weaker (cross section determines strength). The second is that as the line is used the long molecule structures 'break' in to shorter chains and the line has less strength *for the same* cross section. After 3-5 years of service the line has lost 20-40% of its rated strength. And should be replaced in a rigging application.

    Steel wire has none of these problems.

    I can go into more detail if you like, bottom for me is if I want it to stay where I adjust it ... like a Main or Jib Halyard and standing rigging, I prefer steel. If it is an adjustment I make frequently, I use Spectra.

    PBO is a newer wonder fiber that does not creep. It is larger in diameter than steel for the same stretch, however you can built a rig with *less* stretch and less weight aloft using PBO ... at this time it is nose bleed expensive compared to Spectra or steel has very low UV resistance in atmosphere* and has a 3 year service life. Very cool stuff is you can afford it!

    *Turns out that PBO is not UV sensitive in space, only in the atmosphere. Last I heard it was the combination of UV and Oxygen that causes problems ... go figure ... ;)
     
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  9. BHOFM
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    BHOFM Senior Member

    I had roller furling on the Gulfstar. It could be a pain if
    you left it up a little to long and tried to roll it in a little
    blow. Single handed trying to handle the sheet and furler
    at the same time to keep the sail from beating it self up!

    I just add a line to the jib halyard that goes to a small
    block on the bow fitting and back to the cockpit, when
    you hank the jib on, the line goes between the hanks and
    the forestay. Zigzagging between every other hank!

    You can pull the jib down real fast and it stays on the deck!
    A little tension on the sheet and you can go forward later
    and put some bungees around it and just leave it there!

    I used 1/4 line.
     
  10. lazeyjack

    lazeyjack Guest

    time to stop dreaming my son
    i have leasted a bit of land down there by Dixon road, you can build this dream of yours between two 40 foot containers there That is where I MAY do the new boat,
    You are Tapping on in years you have two choices, buildNOW, or buy used, or never get to sail
    give me a bell, cos on 3rd off to boatshow Holland
     
  11. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Furling head sails have certain advantages IF they are big! But otherwise hanked are the way to go - for me - there again I too am an awld fart. 'Course ifn you split yer headsails they are easier to handle, but that depends on the configuration of yer rig - if you have a longish bowsprit, sticking a wee spitfire jib on the end with a roller would be a good idea (gives an extra push in calms - but if it blows out theres not to much problem - other than expense o' course). But all other headsails (that can be reached from the deck) should really be on hanks, you can change em out etc as required, not always just to reef etc

    Lower shouds are of course useful, unless your mast is like a tree trunk (lugger style) the bits of string tend to prevent it falling over..........as to the make up of those bits of string, personnally I prefer galvanised steel wire rope, OK it's extra work but if done properly its both cheap and as good as any of this posh modern stuff - and it works and has worked for several years now (quite a few 'severals' actually) but as I said I'm an awld fart who don't care too much for all this pretty stuff invented yesterday (some numpty is going to tell me it was invented some 15 or so years ago..........that's yesterday to the world mate)

    Course the bottom line is it's up to you, **** I would have a cat anyway (cept to get rid of the rats of course), prefer to keep all my eggs in one basket - if it was good enough for Noah it's good enough for me!
     
  12. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    Thanks Lazy, Have to sell both homes first & if market does not yeild enough I am stuffed anyway - doubt any decision till after Jan 09 - I will bear your offer in mind as that is one thing I have not found yet....

    This is John Hitch's "XIT" a lot bigger and sleeker than my objective, something like the aft (above water shape of the Chamberlin C10 in my gallery & the forward cockpit of Bob Orams new 39C - not on his website yet and the underwater lines ? and skinny).....

    Thanks for all the interest - please keep it coming.... "fire away"....
     

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  13. safewalrus
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    What's an old man like you doing up at this time of night Mas, you need your beauty sleep mate!
     
  14. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Bollocks...
     

  15. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Mas... that just looks wrong. I'm sure it works well but it looks wrong. Hows it go to windward?
     
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