Francis Joyon sets new solo 24 hr record on IDEC II

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Corley, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

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  2. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Incroyable!
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    reord

    Das ist gut!
     
  4. Corley
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    It will be interesting to see how long it will take for Thomas Coville to have another crack at this. IDEC II is a lower tech boat than Sodebo but the Irens designed trimarans top end doesn't seem to be as high as the designs from VPLP. I wonder whether Franck Cammas will have a go with Groupama3 with it's current short rig.
     
  5. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Idec II is not a lower tech boat; the design choice has been to keep the boat as simple and light as possible. So Irens made an optimization based on Joyon's handling and rig choices. There were also budget constraints.
    Joyon has a lot of experience, and he shaved everything he considered as a gadget, so the hardware is really minimal. Joyon's choice is to have the simplest boat you can keep at 100% even being exhausted after 10 days sleeping 3 hours/day.
    That permits to be on the speed of the boat (tuning and route choices) rather than spending time and efforts on a multiplicity of options of tuning.
    Over that program Irens designed a solo trimaran of deceptively simple hulls, with a very good equilibrium and truly easy going in any situation rather than the search of the last knot. Seaworthiness and easiness of manoeuvre.
    The boat is very light and very easy (relatively...that is a big machine) to keep going fast so the trimaran eats miles effortless (relatively...).
    It seems that these options have paid largely; if this tri is not theoretically the fastest, it has an incredible mean speed and it's good all around. I would say that to get these results you need very high tech (good all around sails simple to tune for example) and very good design, engineering and construction (the boat is extraordinary light for its size). It's so easy to make complicated...so difficult to keep it simple, judging if the loss of theoretical speed will be outweighted by the better mean speed as the boat stays all the the time at 100% of its possibilities.
    Sodebo has a different program more axed on races and records with a complete crew.
     
  6. Corley
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    Maybe lower tech wasn't the best way of putting it but IDEC II is certainly a simpler more basic boat built to a different SOR it also doesn't have a canting rig (last I heard anyway) which might place it at a disadvantage versus Sodebo for outright speed. Both Sodebo and IDEC are at a beam disadvantage versus Groupama3 and Franck won easily when last matched up against them.
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    24hr

    Don't forget that both Sodebo and Idec have the most important ingredient for trimaran handling and speed at sea: curved ama foils.......

    http://www.trimaran-idec.com/
     
  8. Corley
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    Doug, many design factors effect trimaran speed and handling while at sea modern design and construction methods plus all of the hard earned empirical knowledge gained over the years. Float lifting foils are an element of that too but I disagree with your assertion that it's the most important factor. Witness the Multi50's and how well they have been performing. It's informative to read Erwan Le Roux's comments on his Multi50 Fenetre Cardinal in the Transat Quebec St Malo race and the Multi50 Actual's nearly giant killing performance in the Round the Island Race in the UK coming within a minute of IDEC II's race record not bad for a non foil equipped trimaran with only half the waterline length. I respect the progress that has been made on foil assist (along with many other design factors) and am not claiming they are not useful but to imply that a trimaran will exhibit poor speed and handling without them is a real stretch.
     

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  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =================
    Well, I agree that there are a lot of factors involved in trimaran design but I still maintain that the improvement in handling, speed and the ability to push the boat harder than you can without them with curved ama foils is the single most significant development in high performance trimaran design in the last 40 years. Joyons own comments about Idec before and after foils make my point( I'm sure those comments are here somewhere-I'll try to find them.*) I'm further convinced that any modern state of the art trimaran would beat its sistership if it was equipped with ama foils and the sistership wasn't. Foils reduce the chance of pitchpole and according to many who have sailed trimarans equipped with them generally improve handling.

    I discovered this accidently the other day:

    And from Joyon, translation by microsoft: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...s-joyon-nous-allons-ajouter-des-foils-a-idec/
    " I know that the foils are extremely pay at the level of speed, much more than a tilting mast."

    *And: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/joyon-add-foils-idec-30489.html
     
  10. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I'd suggest that the application of FEA to multihull structures has more of an impact on their efficiency. Getting the right amount of fibres in the right place and with the right orientation to resist global and localised loadings has delivered lighter structures that are stronger where they need to be. Not to mention the advances in sail fabrics which deliver lighter sails that hold a better shape for longer and survive the greater loads that multihulls place on them. I am not trying to bait you and I do think foils make a useful contribution to the modern ocean and club racing trimaran just not perhaps as much as you.
     
  11. Silver Raven
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    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Curved foil - value

    Gooday all. Way to cold up here 4.5* in Bris & only 6.5 in Cairns - this morning & I'm not well at all - BUT

    Corley "Float lifting foils are an element of that too but I disagree with your assertion that it's the most important factor" ???

    Corley - show me where Doug said - what you said he said - cause I can't find it anywhere I look & I'm still looking too.

    Step back a tad - everybody - loosen-up a bit - The GLASS of knowledge in these forums is - over 1/2 full - - NOT under 1/2 full.

    I see this insidious attitude of being - over-picky & over-critical as a downward spiral that will bring us down to the lowest common denominator. So - I bring this to everyone's attention. Do - - Please consider. Thanks.

    Gary - Corley - Doug & more of you 'really smats' that don't say all that much in here - & blinken well should - 'S-C' - 'Bltd' - Fischer - etc & a dozen more, etc. com-on-in !

    Re; curved foils in a sea-way ??? Also - curved foils in any water ??? Is sailing in 2.5 mtrs of waves in 30 kts when racing around a course in a bunch of 'A' class cats - - is that a sea-way ???

    Casuse if it is - then curved-foils are THE go - IF you think not - just come up-here - get aon an 'A' class (any 1 of 8) come out & play - with straight foils - - with curved foils - swap them & go out again - - Then go up to a really big dam & sail the same boats - in all winds - but with flat water - - then come back in here & tell me again 'curved lifting foils are marginal' - what a total load of 'twaddle' - go sailing my friends - talk to the chaps in 'A' - 'B' - 'C' class & 90% of the big ocean racing multihulls - then again - come-back in here - I'll be waiting.

    Board-up - - board-down - - canted-in - - set -straight - - rudder-up - - rudder-down - - 15* higher 8 % faster & 12% faster down-wind. Go try it. All this theory is not - wet-bumms on boats - going flat-out against 6 other guys all doing the same thing & compairing performance. Is it any wonder why OZ is - UP-THERE - internationally ??? NO not at all. Ciao chaps, james
     
  12. gypsy28
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    gypsy28 Senior Member

    I think this is the statement your looking for Silver Raven

    Now for my sick Aussie humour, the fastest sailboat in the world doesnt have "CURVED" lifting foils :D

    DAVE

    ps any mods to IDEC after her incident off NY before the solo atlantic attempt? Joyons gotta be one of my favourite sailors, what a legend !
     
  13. Silver Raven
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    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'gypsy' - when I wipe the tears off my cheeks - I'll be able to respond. In the meantime - YES you're right 'hydro' doesnt - does BP5 - not sure.

    Only been here since 1961 - - your cents of funny - is great mate. Beers on ice in the esky & prawns are in the fridge - till U get here. Caio, james
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==================
    BP5 does as do almost all record setting trimarans and more and more catamarans and a couple of keelboats.
     

  15. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Here is a pic from the Carbon Club showing IDEC II after her capsize and recovery from the Atlantic record attempt.
     

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