Forward facing rowing system feedback?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kayaker50, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: NW Washington State USA

    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Yaker50,
    Your choice of words seems disrespectful .. "wooden pulley system". Oh well. The WPS would likely be wonderful for birdwatching good for fishing and unsuitable for hunting. One of the really nice features of the WPS is that it can row at half throttle and 2/3 speed with only hands or only feet. The only feet function frees up the hands for fishing, photography, eating or nose picking. Raising the oar blades out of the water, lowering the oars back into the water and feathering of the blades all happens automatically. One can row into the wind really fast .. faster than a kayak. Cherry wood mounting blocks (about 9/16" thick and 3x6") blocks w threaded metal inserts are all that remains in the boat when the two wing nuts are loosened and the machine is lifted out of the boat. The outer 2/3rds of the oar blades come apart like a kayak paddle. One could carry on top of a car or inside many but prolly not on a sailboat. A very large double kayak could be modified for the WPS but a canoe is basically best. One can take big dogs or one or two humans (depending on human size and canoe size). As a roof top load the WPS is 25lbs, easily lifted to car top height. Front Rower makes a boat especially for the WPS available in kit form. I want the AO system for my sorta non-serious rowing.

    Easy Rider
     
  2. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    I use regular oars at present. I have considered a yuloh which is an asian take on the sculling oar and will probably try that. The yuloh is used standing up I believe but my sailboat is fairly stable so that would not be a problem (except under low bridges) and I can also sit near the stern.
     
  3. lang
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Singapore

    lang New Member

    yuloh sculling

    I got to this forum through my search on google for Yuloh ideas. Myself, I have a small sailboat and I hope to scull it effectively someday. I have setup a prototype pin and oar for scull testing. So far, I have gotten 1.2kns quite easily. I suppose if I scull really hard it could go up to 1.5kns max.

    Anyway, I was searching for ideas on how my setup can be improved. Do let me know if you have any ideas. The details are on my blog post http://funvinyldecals.wordpress.com/2009/11/21/sculling-eleanor-finally/

    On 1 test day, I was unable to propel against wind(5kns) and current(suspect 1.5kns). So I was actually backing 0.3kns, despite trying my best to move forward. I track my sculling with GPS to get reliable test results. I would like to get 2kns easy if possible... pls share your ideas.

    Happy holidays everybody.
    Lang.
     
  4. kayaker50
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Raleigh, N.C.

    kayaker50 Junior Member

    Lang, I did a little experimenting with a sculling oar on the back of my dory. The two things I learned are: 1) long sculling oars are better- I used a 16 footer on my 15 foot boat, and 2) a vertical handle makes it much, much easier to use the oar. I put a D-handle on mine, like a shovel. This made it much easier to rotate the oar and hold it at an angle during the stroke. But I found that I was getting most of my propulsion by making the oar kick back at the end of each stroke, rather than slicing the oar through the water during the back and forth stroke.
    Ultimately I found the sculling stroke to be less efficient than plain old rowing because rowing oars don't waste energy by sweeping sideways. Good luck, Chip.
     
  5. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Just in case you guys are not aware there is another foreward facing rowing system available,google ez row,it looks like a nice unit although not really what you are after.I too would like a simple,easily removable system for my 9ft dinghy and as it is my tender it cant be heavy or cumbersome.
    Steve.
     
  6. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Steve,
    I looked at the ez rower system. Looks good for the price but all the rowing force goes through your upper body, arms and hands. With the Front Rower only half goes through the upper body and the rest goes directly from legs to oars. If you never intend to work up a sweat the ez-rower would probably do. I think what you need is the "forward facing rowing system"
    Kyaker 50,
    For your dory the only system so far on this thread that would work for you is the Forward Facing Rowing System. Articulated oarlocks.

    Easy Rider
     
  7. kayaker50
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    kayaker50 Junior Member

    Yeah, I'd like to try it before I coughed up all that cash though. And as I look at the video more, it seems the oars they use are quite short. Makes me wonder if the articulators (my new word for the day) may not be up to the stress of 8 foot or 9 foot oars? Chip.
     
  8. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Yaker 50,
    Well I'm going to get the articulators. The three systems we've got on the table are $2000, $1000 and $500. What do you mean "all that money". This articulator is the cheapest. Yea the articulator website is crude but the product looks good. I think the geometry of the system is non linear. They say there is a 15% "gear up" effect and on my little whitehall I could use it. I need a bigger rowboat. I'd say go for it.

    Easy Rider
     
  9. tspeer
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    tspeer Senior Member

    Did you end up getting the articulated locks? What has your experience been like?
     
  10. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Simplest is a clip on mirror attached to glasses or sun glasses , $10. from any bicycle shop.
     
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  11. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    What most folks don't 'get' until they do a bit of rowing is how important it seems to monitor your wake and oar swirls for smooth and proper technique. It is kinda hypnotic, like watching a fire, but different. I try to go fast with minimal swirls (not sure if that is the right way).

    Yes, rowing (sliding seat) tends to be more about rowing for the sake of rowing, while paddling is a means to an end.

    They tell me windsurfing is all about going to and fro in the same spot, just for the sake of standing on a fast sailing board and cutting fast turns, and that windsurfers aren't good for exploring little inlets, or at least not as good as dinghies.

    After discovering the joys of 'wake watching' I'm wanting a rearward facing kayak, maybe with a different sort of paddle(s) altogether. But I think the 'stroke' will be OK. Just reversing high/low arm push/pull of double ended paddle. I'm sure I'd get a few looks and head scratches.
     
  12. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    tspeer,
    Since we started moving from Alaska and brought our Willard south we have done no boating at all. That's been almost two years as we had to sell the 1st house we bought and get another ... and of course move again. Still struggling to dowhat we feel we need to do w the new house. Working on carports in the winter so I won;t have to do it in the summer. And you can guess what I/we intend to do in the summer.

    So no I have not purchased or used articulated oarlocks. And since I live over an hour away from sea water rowing may not be in my future at all.

    I didn't like Ron Rontillia's Front Rower because one needs to pull from a NE and NW direction rather than from the north. One's back is mostly left out of the action. It was a great deal like pulling oars from the side instead of from dead ahead. It didn't feel good to me. Just didn't like it. Was not easy to go straight w the canoe however significant turns or turning around took wide arcs and much time.

    If I do rowing in the future I'll probably need a small lightweight trailer for one of my small cars and to drive two hours or more. I do like driving (just bought a new Jetta) and rowing (fixed seat) so it may happen. And if I didn't take my wife along she'd probably go shopping.

    Squidly-Diddly,
    Rowing "properly" serves no purpose in my world. And rowing fast seems no more satisfying (unless exercise is in order) than rowing slowly. But as you point out as long as there is a satisfying wake to enjoy. I'll leave the analysis to you.
     
  13. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Squid - any kayak can be paddled backwards, not difficult with the double-bladed paddle and not as slow or inefficient as you might expect. If you want to see the wake (provided the hull is symmetrical) that would be a cheap and easy way to do it. If it's a decent kayak there's so little wake that after a while you'll get bored, mostly it shows where the paddle blades have been, not where the boat has been.
     
  14. kayaker50
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    kayaker50 Junior Member

    As for me, I had decided on Gig Harbor's 'forward facing rowing system' but they were difficult to deal with- they didn't answer emails, didn't want to sell me cut down oars, and changed the material from aluminum to stainless steel now referring the aluminum models to 'prototypes'. I have opted to try stand up rowing using a paddle from a SUP, which I am now building. I did try mounting a rear-view mirror from a pick up truck onto my footrest, and that works pretty well for seeing what's in front of you, but it's not good enough for bird watching along the banks of a stream or lake.
    I have come to the conclusion if rowing while looking forward were easy, everyone would be doing it.
     

  15. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Kayaker50, with forum names like ours, why are we talking about rowing . . . ?
     
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