Form vs Function

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Willallison, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thank you Slavi,

    peacocks, thats it.

    Italians are very professional in that field. (not that your own folks have much of a lack on that)

    Your description of the market is just brilliant.

    No doubt, the average Wally does much less sailing than the average ..what.. Bavaria?.. no...ALL the competition by length.
    It is important to be seen on such floating debris. Not to sail it. The latter is even counterproductive.

    A good Ferrari is better when the Bier Garden has a view on the car park.........

    A good marina gets every rate, when the public view is provided....

    Monte Carlo is still the best place to be with a yacht (I know from experience), all the big asses feel nice to be (not) seen there.

    You made it clear with a excerpt as fine as possible, peacock behaviour will sell the crap.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  2. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Well, I was born there - and wouldn't change it for anything. ;)

    I just love Med area, Daniel. It contains so much history and culture that you could spend your lifetime travelling around it and would manage to see and learn just a tiny part of what humanity has left for us through ages.
    And nature is beautiful too, food is excellent, wine also and people are very sociable. :)
     
  3. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Yes, that is true. I was in fact surprised to find that it is not an italian product. Today I found a link on Art Of Kinetik's website to an article talking about them, pdf-printed from Yachts Croatia:
    http://www.artofkinetik.com/pdf/Yachts.pdf

    It is in Croatian, so don't bother to read. :D But it does contain some more pics, and a few cross-sections and accomodation layouts. It says that their company is british-owned, but design and production are in Germany and Serbia.

    From what I could see so far there is a lots of creative and artistic movement going on in both Serbia and Croatia, they have a generation of some really innovative young industrial and architectural designers. We yet have to see how much experience they have in marine design.

    I still think that we shouldn't judge this kind of boats by common ocean-going standards, Richard. If you do so, then yes - this boat is a crap, like you said.
    But in this case a comparison with floating houses is more appropriate, imho. It is a boat for those who like to show off (peacocks ;) ) and have enough money to do it in this way. As such, this design hits right at the target. Wally has paved the way and directed attention and desires of many folks. Now the others are following the trail.

    What I mostly dislike (actually completely disapprove), is 2400 HP of installed power. The article says that it consumes 450 l/h of fuel at 40 knots, and 340 l/h at 32 knots. That's 11 liters for each mile, or 0.33 mpg. I call that pure insanity.

    Cheers!
     
  4. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Serbia I believe..and all they are doing is following Italian design details. Italians are the masters of design, masters of style, masters of desire, masters of the frivolous. All design follows the Italian influence. . Even the Germans mimic the details.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Fully concur Slavi!

    These craft are made to show up, not to make trips or passages. And in this playground they do well.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. Lurvio
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    Lurvio Mad scientist

    Cute toys, I like the dark wood on the bigger boat. Kinda like the design also, but I have to agree with you guys on the website thing.

    Lurvio
     
  7. kach22i
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    kach22i Architect

  8. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    :D:D
    Couldn't open your link to the special ops craft btw.... forbidden access... just waiting for the swat team to come knocking at the door anytime now...:eek:

    Many thanks Slavi for the Croatian link. I must say that whilst I still maintain my appreciation for some of the detailing and consider it a well-aimed marketing effort, the more I see of it the less impressed I become.
    The layout is rather odd, to begin with... and pitty the poor guests who have to chop their legs off to get into that fwd berth!;)
    Without a lines plan it's impossible to say for certain, but I have some concerns about the amount of curvature evident in the keel line - if the buttocks follow the same line then the dynamic stability could be interesting...
     

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  9. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    This is a boat design be to be run in planning mode only in low sea state.
    Jet drives, low bow, low transom, etc... Cartier day tripper..

    I like my design for dingy in boat better. Let the dingy be transom door, swin platform and dingy.
     
  10. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Yes, but note that there is curvature throughout the length of the keel. If the buttocks follow the same line then things will likely go pearshape
     
  11. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    The yacht is purpose built for the Med. All the stern detailing is near perfect. easy access when stern too, dramatic show off styling when stern too...perfect. Its missing the big chunky wraparound fendering like the wally yachts . It will be stresfull to handle the mooring line...the Corpo Morto..with no snubber winch forward and very narrow side decks. .
     
  12. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Do you really think so Michael? We all agree that it looks the part... but where will all those lovelies sit when they've finished draping themselves over the aft sunlounge? There's almost nowhere in this boat to sit, apart from down below. Quite an accomplishment in a 19 meter open sportscruiser! Cast a glance at any of the succesfull boats in this genre and their deck-spaces are typified by acres of places to sit and watch the minions jealously stroll past the stern....
     
  13. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Perhaps...remember the summer sun in the Med is brutal hot, many people prefer the shade. One of the reasons you speed off at full speed, turbos wailing, to the next port is so you can stroll off the burning yacht into a nice shady Med taverna for heat relief and lunch. Manytimes its a winner to design a boat exactly how it will be used. Id expect that the low angle..".greenhouse " windscreen on that yacht is special glass to protect from the burning sun. The fashionable Wally tender doesn't have much usable suntan space, sit around space...neither the Beautiful Cacique.
     

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  14. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    No argument re the hardtop - indeed it exemplifies my point - there's a small lounge, capable of seating (but not dining by the look of it) 4 people.... other than the helm, that's it unless you go below. For a boat that's meant to show off... to entertain on, that seems like rather a glaring error to me.
    I've been sketching planing powerboats with their galley's and living spaces all at deck level for years. The mainstream manufacturers have, in the last couple of years, cottoned on to what has always been obvious to me - people don't (generally) want to be stuck below decks, in a cavern reminiscent of a 20 year old sailboat.
    Again, this is a 62 foot boat.... compare it's on deck accomodations (and below deck, for that matter) to an Azimut 62 - chalk and cheese. Sure, the Kinetik will stand out from the crowd where the Azimut no longer will these days, but that doesn't mean you can't incorporate at least a modicum of function into your form.
    Compare it even to the Wally 47 that you show in your pics - it has more on-deck accomodation. Sure, the 36 ft Tender is a little shy in this department, but, true to its name, it's ohardly aimed at on-board entertaining in the same way is the Kinetik....
    Not familiar with the Cacique... will have to hunt that one down...
     

  15. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Perhaps there is another concideration on the ultra fashion kinetik yacht. To be Seen , looked at , while being discreet, personally hidden at the same time. I dont know. What I do know is that the people who buy these toys have very much money and they prefer toys which are so distinctive that everyone knows they have a lot of money. To be distinctive in St Tropez requires a yacht with very much jewlerly and design detailing aft. Eye candy for the people sitting in the Cafe de Paris.. This could be considered the form and function of a design...not neccasarily its ease of use or sea keeping. . I see fashion yachts ..speedboats, with a glass topped engine room covers, chrome engine plated compenents and nightligting to show it off when stern too in St Tropez..
     
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