Force 7 Ocean Wave

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by CarlosK2, Oct 3, 2025.

  1. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    I'm going to try to organize my thoughts on an offshore sailboat design here.

    My reflection begins with a young Force 7 summer ocean wave in the Atlantic sailing from Madeira to the Canary Islands.
     
  2. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

  3. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Pierre Gutelle, The Design of Sailing Yacht

    IMG_20251003_120016.jpg

    "the most important phenomena to understand when considering the behaviour [the bad behaviour] of a boat in seas"
     
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  4. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    At the top, there are 4 knots of orbital current, and at the bottom, there are 4 knots of counter-current.

    If the sailboat is sailing at, say, 7 knots, the rudder blade sees 3 knots and the bow feels 11 knots.

    And the hydrodynamic forces depend on the square (!) of the speed.

    The difference is simply huuuge: the sailboat is stuck in a nutcracker.
     
  5. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Roger Taylor, MingMing

    "Despite a lifetime's advocacy of minimal ocean cruising, I could still be caught off-guard by the reality of a tiny boat sailing effortlessly in massive seas"

    Because

    a tiny boat (< 20 ft, < 6 m) ... sail on the same zone of the same wave
     
  6. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

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  7. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    IMG_20250622_214348.jpg

    The second most important phenomenon is the wave's steepness.

    A Force 7 ocean wave, like the wave drawn here following Franz Joseph von Gerstner, can have a steepness of 12 degrees.

    And the sine of 12 degrees is 0.20

    In other words, the Almighty Force of the Earth propels the sailboat with a force in Newtons equal to 20% of its mass in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 in the metric system.

    Thus, a sailboat that was accustomed to (and even designed) to move with, a wind force of 3-4% of its displacement is propelled by a force equivalent to 20% of its displacement.

    Moreover, it is a sum of forces

    The Force of the Earth
    The Force of the Wind
    The Force of the Sea
     
  8. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    IMG_20250623_081142.jpg

    The importance of the Froude-Krylov Force is controversial when we talk about a small boat; but it is very real on the crest of the wave, with its horizontal and vertical components.

    Thus, the important phenomena are:

    A) orbital current and countercurrent

    B) wave slope, which unleashes the Almighty Force of the Earth

    C) wind force on the hull and sails with a large lever arm, and

    D) Froude-Krylov impact or push, with its horizontal and vertical components.
     
  9. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    A small sailboat of 18.7-20 feet (5.7-6.1 meters) is a great size for good dynamic behavior in open seas with big waves.

    Small size has great potential.

    Now, I'm going to argue against a sailboat under 5.7-6 meters (18.7-19.7 feet)
     
  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    A wind force on what? How do you compare wind force (speed in common language use) to displacement which is weight? They are different units so it makes no sense.
     
  11. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Weight directly translates to force; it is an expression of force.

    Wind speed can only be translated to force when area and density are included. Wing/foil lift dynamics makes it more complicated, but everything can be reduced to Newton's of force.

    -Will
     
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  12. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    IMG_20250602_102451.jpg

    A small boat is a great idea because it offers a versatile and powerful rig of more than 20 square meters per ton, and it also tends to perform well in typical Force 7 and Force 6 summer ocean waves in the open sea.

    That is, the exact opposite of the typical insufferable dinosaur: rig that is not versatile, 10 square meters per ton, and which on top of that easily gets caught in young Force 7 and Force 6 ocean waves.

    Furthermore, a small boat allows for retractable appendages and a mast 40 cm from the comfortable and safe cockpit, so that the sailor never leaves it, not even to drop or retrieve the anchor, hoist a gennaker, or hoist a jib.

    In other words, the boat acts as an exoskeleton at the other end of the Victorian-era yacht.

    6 meters is a maximum that is quickly lost with a smaller size.

    With a smaller size, nothing is gained and two very important objectives are not achieved:

    D/L < 150

    A large, very large

    Longitudinal Metacentric Height
     
  13. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    <150 D/L

    It's an essential goal to achieve everything that comes with gliding over the sea:

    beauty, pleasure, enjoyment, serenity, the peace of mind that comes from feeling something is working well, and the feeling of accomplishment and triumph.
     
  14. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Longitudinal Metacentric Height

    In a 6-meter light boat, with careful design, a Longitudinal Metacentric Height of astronomical size can be achieved: 18-20 meters

    3 (!) x LWL

    18-20 meters of longitudinal metacentric height in a 6-meter boat means ...

    Pitch -1° Bow down ...

    = Center of Buoyancy moves 30 cm forward: 5% LWL

    This gives 1 Ton Displacement a lever arm of 30 cm, an essential element for Stability of the balance on the Pitch axis.
     

  15. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Pitch Control

    We achieve this by combining three pieces of the puzzle:

    1) A huge Longitudinal Metacentric Height that provides us with a high baseline safety reserve

    2) The longitudinal position of the sailboat center of Gravity aft of the center of Buoyancy, which is aft of the center of Flotation

    L_CG > L_CB > L_CF

    L_CG: 62% LWL
    L_CB: 60% LWL
    L_CF: 58% LWL

    With this, we simultaneously achieve two things:

    2a) that Roll dont provoke Pitch bow down

    2b) eliminates the tendency to Pitch bow down due to Froude-Krylov push when the wave hits the stern

    3) Hydrodynamic Trim capable of withstanding the Force of the Sails and their enormous lever arm.
     
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