foiling 18

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by John ilett, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    This is all really nice, Paul, but it still does not address the central point to the argument, which is why would a SNAME Fellow claim the designs on his web page, when you, in your infinite wisdom say otherwise?

    Why does the name Antrim appear on the Class web page for the Antrim27?

    Why is Antrim credited as the lead architect on the U20 and also listed on Antrim's monohull page as being designed by him?

    Why is Antrim architect of record for the Sailing World, Sportboat of the Year, award in '95.

    What difference does it make that the U20 hull may have similarities to the Hotfoot20? Were you there when the prototype was stripped-up? Have you reviewed the drawings, as supplied by Antrim and then compared them to whatever Hotfoot material may be around?

    I think it's you who have performed like the Lord on this one, my boy. Dodging specific points because they make you uncomfortable, or you have no substantive answer to refute the discussion. You provide... "The first Hotfoot to be modified with a prod was done in the harbor I sailed in". This is anecdotal, at best and truthfully, has virtually nothing to do with the points made in the discussion. I'm guessing it makes you feel good to say it. Whatever.

    Perhaps you consider the official web pages for the Classes involved here, to be grossly in error. That's interesting, since they are the same guys who certify that a boat is legal for racing in their class organization. It's not ether, Paul, it's specification info directly relating to the boat in question. I get that you have no substantive argument save for, "I had a set of plans from Mull". Please tell me you have more than that.

    Come on, Paul, you can do better than this.

    All this is getting very far afield of the discussion on the Foiling 18. The point you decided to refute on technical grounds has still not been knocked-down by you or anyone else here. Your nitpicking attempt is without merit and there's no data from a reliable source to ground it in reality.

    What do you say we drop this? Well, it doesn't matter what you say to that question, as I'm dropping it.

    Laters, Brah
  2. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    What in the H are you talking about, Gorilla Boy?

    Did you see the response from Sam to my post? Did he sound offended in any manner? Where, in the post, is there anything like a personal jab there?

    Here's Sam's response, so you don't have to make the effort to thumb back a page to read it:

    "hang on, just finished some of the sketches (pencil and paper, wow), going to draw alittle more, then draw them up on "rhino osx" then a 1/4 model from mdf, foam, and epoxy/vereer, then a hull form male mold, then foam and carbon.......But I'll send out the sketches......"
  3. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Oh sorry Chris, just the last time you chose to weigh in and insult me you used the term Bubba, my mistake..... but there you go agian with the Gorilla Boy.

    LOL call it a preemptive post.
  4. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

  5. wind_apparent
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 257
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 96
    Location: boulder colorado

    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

    wow, double dude, fisting foiler................that has got to sting alittle.....:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: cold cold burn, but on the bright side it's good to see that your not dead.......
  6. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    You keep mentioning this SNAME Fellowship for some reason. Has nothing to do with the point.

    Today Kobe Bryant was reported to be the NBA MVP. He is also a Rapist. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

    Hmmm, maybe MARKETING geeks think it is better to credit live people than give due to someone no longer around. That might make the "new" boat seem dated, if it was credited to someone who had long ago passed.

    Jim Antrim DOES give credit on his site to Mull for the 27 (see attached jpeg). He also admits on his site that his work on the 20 is a redesign of an existing boat (see attached jpeg).

    It does not have "similarities". It is the same hull. The class acknowledges this, and allows the old Hotfoot boats to be reconfigured and race as class legal U20s.

    The Mull 27 was actually designed for Don Massey, who was also the Mull client for the design that became the Pocket Rocket 22, and now Rocket 22. Attached you will find photos of the wood one-off on the Pocket Rocket that Don built. He was going to build the 27 in wood to the Mull drawings, but I don't think he ever did.

    Here's a reliable source: It will be very easy for you to send along a quick e-mail to Jim and ask two simple questions.

    1. Did you draw the lines for the Ultimate 27?
    2. Did you draw the lines for the Ultimate 20?

    Attached Files:

  7. wind_apparent
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 257
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 96
    Location: boulder colorado

    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

    funny, I voted for Chris Ostlind MVP because of his full frontal Assult on Doug over on "SailingAnarchy", so what does that say about him?
  8. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

  9. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Amusing stuff

    Incorrect, nevertheless.

    Take a long look at the posts of Doug Lord over the years and share with us, the numbers of individuals who have found him distasteful and offensive. This is especially true for the guys in the Moth foiling community, of which I am not a member.

    The sleuthing continues.
  10. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Nothing to do with the point... really? It goes to credibility, Paul. It's really interesting that you choose to pair these two positions as a form of comparison and contrast. I'll have to reconsider my previous desires to have you draw-up a contract for me when I buy a boat. You clearly do not see the ugliness of a smear campaign. Or, maybe you see it too well?

    By the way, Paul, since you are apparently such a stickler for detailed accuracy... Was Kobe Bryant ever found guilty of ****?

    I'll save you the trouble of the tiresome search for accuracy. The answer is NO.

    So, it would seem that you have an ongoing desire to spread falsehoods and innuendo in order to further your weak arguments. I don't know about your moral sense of right and wrong, Paul. I'm leaning towards the idea that you are a closet bigot with the Bryant comment.

    The man went to trial after being accused and the case was tossed by the judge due to lack of cred by the principal witness to the supposed event. I guess that's all it takes in your "quick to judge" brain? The simplicity of an accusation. Like I said before, that's really weak.

    I'm going to disconnect from this discussion, now, Paul. I'm clearly debating with your emotion and facts are not going to help you get past that. Maybe some other time, in some other place, but not here and not now.

    Laters, Brah
  11. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Chris is. He did the same thing on this forum not too long ago. Used the name "Carlos" and admitted it(post #98 below). 1 Grand Prix
    Quote from that post:
    "Yes, I posted as Carlos. Why not?... you post as Lorsail. Others post without using their real names. Get over it. When you answer all the questions that have been posed, I'll stop using fake names to get you to answer those that are posed, but never answered."
    You know if you read someones posts long enough and they start posting under another name you can recognize the "wordsmithing".
    My attention was called to it when:
    1) under a thread about Jundts new boat they both posted the same picture AND link,
    2) I went to Big Oz's list of posts and found the two out of three were personal attacks on me. Bingo
  12. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    "Paranoia is a disturbed thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) simply means madness (para = outside; nous = mind) and, historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state."

    Conspiracy Theorist

    "A conspiracy theory usually attributes the ultimate cause of an event or chain of events (usually political, social or historical events), or the concealment of such causes from public knowledge, to a secret, and often deceptive plot by a group of powerful or influential people or organizations. Many conspiracy theories imply that major events in history have been dominated by conspirators who manipulate political happenings from behind the scenes."

    Getting out more and away from the computer will help, Doug. Other than that, check your mental health coverage with your provider.

    Last resort: Just go out and buy that Don Quixote costume you have been lusting after and get yourself a really long lance. The world is full of windmills. ;-)
  13. wind_apparent
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 257
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 96
    Location: boulder colorado

    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

    This has gone to far, and I'm loving every minute of it.......

    New Boom: $400
    New mast: $1200
    New Bill Hansen Foiler Sail: $1500
    Pictures of Chris and Doug wearing matching Don Quixote costumes while sailing the double dude lube foiler to a best western in time For Doug's funeral:
  14. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Actually this is another instance of you misrepresenting facts to help prop up your argument. This never went to trial and was not tossed by the judge due to lack of credibility of anyone. But you can't let facts get in the way of defending your positions. Just like Doug Lord.

    Of course you won't address the issue at hand. You can ask two simple questions and prove your position. But you won't. You already know the answer and you, like your pal Doug Lord, just can't admit the truth.

    Like Lord you go to the internet and pick and choose tidbits, ignoring other pertinent information. You misreprsent what people say on their sites to try and bolster your arguments. I've seen you do it before, and you are doing it in this thread.

    You are not debating my emotion, you are ignoring the facts I've presented because you feel threatened. So Lord-like and you can't even see it.

    So you continue to invest in your fantasy, fingers -in-ears, yelling, "I can't hear you." over and over.

    Wow, The Rapist is innocent because he wasn't convicted? Just like OJ must be innocent, right? Oops, I must be a RACIST for bringing that up too.

    The baseless "you must be a racist" argument is probably the weakest debating tactic ever. I guess when you've got nothing you just throw that out. It wouldn't occur to you that I dislike people of all colors, creeds, and religions who choose to mistreat women, would it?

    Two little questions, and you won't ask them.

  15. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Funny stuff, Sam.

    Really, Hansen quoted you $1500 for the sail?
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