FOILER 1 Grand Prix

foilers

What I was comparing is the actual performance of the multifoilers that have been marketed vs the actual performance of the Moth monofoiler.The Hobie and Rave just wouldn't foil in lighter air where the Moth does-big difference. A multifoiler COULD be built to take off early as well but those two boats don't. By the way, my F3 RC multifoiler takes off reliably in 5mph(not knots) of wind.
As I said before the Moth is proving on a regular basis that it is probably the fastest sailboat under 20' beating cats, skiffs and everything in between in conditions that suit both boats. From what I hear the boats handle rough conditions quite well and have raced succesfully in tough conditions all over the world.

 

Moths+2 foils/multiple foils=multifoiler.

You wouldnt be able to market it as a monofoiler.

 

Don't confuse the issue with facts or logic.

 

For extra credit, can you explain why or why not that has any relevance to a Moth?

Please include the nature of air on planet earth and the effects of scale. Support your conclusion with numbers, formulas and graphics as needed. Show all your work, cite references.

 

oh?

See www.monofoiler.com for the aeroSKIFF™ and other monofoilers.
The modern definition of monofoiler originates from the Moth class where the two foil system was deemed legal and the three foil system a "multihull configuration". In fact the original monofoiler was the Monitor which used a three foil system(actually multiple "ladder" foils in three positions) followed by a couple of other boats using three foil systems a 470 and FD in the 70's. Ian Ward sailed on just two foils for the first time in history in 1999; John Ilett and Rohan Veal made a two foil altitude controlled system a World Class race winner.

 

Doug
At the brass monkey regatta on Sydney Harbour the Moths did not beat any of the skiffs.
Keep fantasising!

 

they cannot seem to understand that mono means one and then count the number of foils they use.

It's pretty basic, Mono ... one channel, Stereo ... two channels

The foiler Moths are Mono-Track Stereo Foilers! MTSF's

 

Brass Monkey

Baron, I know the story of that regatta well: anti foiler guys use it all the time to prove how the foiler Moth doesn't really perform well at all! It was a bad day for sure-only two Moths one sailed by a new guy to foilers and one by the world champion in a borrowed boat. Both boats broke down and the gusty conditions gave them a fit. Too bad... But the recent Australian Moth speed record was 23.3 knots (I think) and the UK record is slightly higher. That's plain incredible performance for an 11 footer. Add to that the long lists of races where the Moth beat a fleet of A class cats, 49ers in the UK and 14's in Australia as well as recently matching speed with a Tornado in Aus. See the C cass thread on SA and look what they say about C class catamaran speed-about the same or slightly faster then the foiler Moth!

 

Please post the "long list". Results please, not anecdotes.

 

lists

Randy, do the research yourself-this stuff is scattered all over the web. I'm hoping that it will all be gathered together in one place -perhaps on the Foiler 1GP site before long.

 

I feel no need to support your claims. Apparently neither do you.

 

Foiler 1 GP

Thats right Randy-I don't need to do a thing to support my "claims"-they're supported by the facts-facts mostly accessible to anyone.
Just heard from Rohan Veal and the Foiler 1 Grand Prix site-the original topic of this thread- will be updated before long with more Moth foiler facts.

 

Doug

Put up or Shut up. I know you are enthauastic but your claims are verging on that of a religous cult. Also on SA is a thread about how people over estimate the speeds of boat and how a single GPS data point for max speed can be many knots too fast. Here are a few simple questions. I have tried to find the answers but a google search has not revealed any outcome.

1. What is the fastest speed a Moth has gone over a timed 500m course?

2. In which regatta did the foiling moth beat a fleet of 49ers?

3. In which regatta did the foiling moth beat a fleet of A class cats?

If you just tell me the places I will do the work and find the results.

Don't get me wrong. I think the moths a cool and do go very fast. I have seen them sail by me several times and admire them very much. It is just your claims seem over the top and you refuse to provide any evidence.

Nobody.

 

evidence

1) fastest on a timed 500 m course -no idea-see Rohans site and the UK site. I just read yesterday where Rohan did 23.3 or similar but can't find it-go to his site and write him(www.rohanveal.com)
2)John Ilett sent me a newspaper clipping over a year ago describing Simon Payne(UK) "as the fastest thing on the water" and sailing at the same handicap as a Tornado.I don't remember where the regatta was but it was in England. Further he said he was "about 15% faster" *** than the 49er's in that regatta. Write John at Fastacraft about it-he may still have the clipping he sent me.
3)Go to Rohans site and read his diary about year and a half ago where he describes beating a fleet of A class cats in 5 out of 6 races. Unfortunately, there were numerous reports on the Aussie A class site under "hydrofoils" about A class sailors being passed by Moth foilers but most of that info including Rohans description of this regatta was destroyed. There may be a few comments still there at the very begining.
========================
As I just posted the Foiler 1 GP site, maintained by Rohan, will have new info added-hopefully on a regular basis.This thing is getting big enough that his information needs to be collected and available in one place. The performance of this boat is simply astounding and up to now it's been hard to pull the facts together-hopefully from now on there will be one site with it all.....
++++++++++++
*** The Moth foiler is not 15% faster than a 49er-; according to te Australian yardstick it is one minute faster over a 'standard course'.See post # 61

 

I went to the site I couldn't find anything about 23.3. The other site you mentioned (http://www.foiler1.com/foiler_moth.html) lists 22.3 and the MAX speed recorded. Is this a max GPS speed subject to about a 5 knot error or the speed sustained over any sort of distance?

This is the thing that concerns me. You are running around the internet with statements like the foiling moths are fastest thing on the planet yet it is all based on chinese whispers. Relying on a newspaper clipping that calls him the "fastest thing on the water" is crazy. I could think of a lot of things that are faster. Sure most of them have a internal combustion engine but they would certianly blow past a moth. Put up some credible evidence or shut up!

RYA yardstick numbers are here.
From http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/8E9F3CB6-C605-4E21-9121-29DED55A1364/0/DinghyClassDataReport.pdf

I suspect that these are for the non-foiling moth but the results from Australia show that the foiling moth is about 10% (6 minutes in a one hour race) faster than a non-foiling moth. This stilll means that the foiling moth is not as fast as a 49er.

I found this on his site in reference to the when searching Rohans site for A Class.

"Monday 29th November, 2004

> Had two fantastic days of sailing against the A class cats and Robby and Glenn on their Tornado at the Go For Gold Regatta. Tim and the three Dave's really taught me a lot on how to sail fast upwind, and as a result I can now match them on speed and height. Downwind is a different story. Due to the lower drag on a Moth hull and rig, I could sail a lot lower and faster than them, effectively being around about 15% quicker down to the bottom mark. Needless to say I beat them around the course in every race that I could foil in, while finishing around a minute behind Robby."

Was this the entry you talked about? So faster than a A class (when foiling) and slower than a Tornado.

I also found this on http://www.rohanveal.com/2004_blog_archive.html too

"Monday 6 December, 2004

> Raced on Sunday against the 14's at Sandringham in 13-15 knots with 0.5m chop. Finally I beat Lindsay Irwin around the course, and by a minute or so as well. Port tacked the fleet at the start and never really looked back. Think I have got downwind foiling in Port Phillip Bay chop sussed now for maximum VMG without launching into space."

So a foiler moth is just a little 1 minute over a race faster than a I14 in ideal foiling conditions. How much slower or faster is a 49er verses a I14.

Hopefully the SFS Brass Monkey regatta this comming year will be well attended and the conditions will suit foiling so you won't use that as an excuse. Then we will have a realistic comparrision of the relative sailing speed of the various classes.

Nobody