Floating through the sky boat with wheels?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by ColorsWolf, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 3,168
    Likes: 333, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1279
    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    I wish you well ColorsWolf. Please go back a few posts and read Leos' advice. That is the first order of business......Math, Physics, Chemistry. Your chances of being accepted into the Coast Guard Academy will be far greater if you can show above average proficiency in those subjects.

    The academy is located on the Thames river in New London Conn. It is cold there in the winter. The Tall ship Eagle used to live in the river there, maybe it still does. Magnificent old beast on which you will be given the dubious pleasure of climbing the rigging to tend the sails. There will be a cruise or two on the Eagle where you will be just lowly deck hand, not an aspiring naval officer.

    Academy graduates will have made a contract agreement to serve in the CG after graduation. That's part of deal in any of the military academies.

    You mentioned the rate of Bosuns Mate. That is designated as rate not an academy graduates designation. Enlisted men or women have rates, academy graduates have rank.

    If you aspire to a BM status then you will enlist as a regular recruit and go to boot camp, then to trade school if you qualify. You will not get much if any sailing experience, not in a sailboat anyway. Very little if any boat building experience either. Boat repair and maintenance, yes. If you do not go to a CG trade school you will be merely a seaman. It will take a while to qualify for your BM designation, they call it "striking" for whatever specialty you have chosen. Grizzly old Chief petty officers will have to recommend you for your first attempt at earning your BM3 stripe. (bosuns mate third class).

    I would urge any decent young man to enlist. Coast guard is not a piece of cake but it is one of the most valuable experiences of your life. Marine boot camp is understood to be hellish. Not many people will tell you that CG boot camp is equally hellish, strenuous, sometimes dangerous. I am telling you that it is.

    How do I know all this stuff? Back in the dark ages I was a USCG enlisted man. My rate was FT1. (Fire control technician). Fire control is not about putting out fires although all seaman are schooled in the methods and practices of doing just that. FT means controlling where to aim ones artillery, undersea weaponry, or small arms. I doubt that the way they do things has changed much in all those years, except that they have finally gotten better aircraft than those ancient old Catalina flying boats. Better faster boats too.

    I hope that this has given you a small glimpse into the reality aspect of your ambitions. Go for it. Semper Paratus
  2. John Perry
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 281
    Likes: 30, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 129
    Location: UK

    John Perry Senior Member

    Colors Wolf:

    About 15 years ago I was in a yacht club bar in Dorset UK where I was privileged to meet up with the French adventurer and engineer Didier Costes. Didier told me about an amazing project of his that included many of the features you talk about - a boat that files in the air - lifted by helium, powered by renewable energy etc.

    This was a real project, put together with commercial sponsorship, I think from a french supermarket chain. The idea was an airship that was connected by a cable to a hydroplane immersed in the sea. The airship hull acted as a sail, Didier said that it had a lift to drag ratio of about 4:1 so not a wonderful sail but not completely hopeless either. The thing in the sea acted as a keel, so the craft could sail and even make some progress to windward. It also had two kinds of auxiliary power - a Volkswagen air cooled petrol engine driving an airscrew and some pedals that could also be linked to the airscrew to utilise human power. The crew were in a gondola under the airship hull and this gondola was designed to be a seaworthy sailing boat in its own right. The gondola was attached to the hull of the airship by four explosive bolts - the idea was that in emergency you could press a button and explode the bolts to drop down into the sea below then continue the journey on the sea surface. I cant remember if a parachute was included, perhaps this emergency system was only for use at very low altitude.

    Anyway, the craft was built and the team set off to cross the Atlantic ocean. They had headwinds and progress was slower than hoped for, so they reluctantly ran the engine. They were hundreds of miles out with fuel running low and the airship loosing buoyancy so it was flying only a little above the waves. They decided to press the critical button. Unfortunately, only two of the four explosive bolts actually detonated, so rather than falling to the sea, the gondola just swung down through 90 degrees. There were some heavy objects in the gondola, these broke loose smashing a hole in the bow. At that point the remaining two bolts fractured and the gondola plunged to the sea, filled through the hole in the bow and sank. Didier and his crew were rescued from the sea, I cant remember how.

    A real fact is stranger than fiction story. I couldn't find anything about this incredible expedition on the internet, other than one reference to Didier Costes in connection with an airship. I wonder if anyone here knows more?
    1 person likes this.
  3. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 3,497
    Likes: 147, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2291
    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    I found quite a few references by googling "Didier Costes" - this pic may be the device you were describing. The concept is similar to SailRocket . . .

  4. ColorsWolf
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: CA

    ColorsWolf Junior Member

    To be honest, I don't make any money at all and I have found it incredibely difficult to find a job in the last 3 years that pays any kind of money. It would be incredibely difficult to afford any kind of school as a civilian with no job and very little money.

    This would be the best thing money wise to do.

    This would also be the best way to get a combination of the things I want: training, knowledge, expierence, boating, survival training, and a way to pay back and help out my family finacially.

    You don't need to convice me to join the Coast Guard, I'm already going for it!~ ^_^

    I'll study for the ASVAB test even though I know how to do most of this stuff, because I'd rather be overpepared and try to get the highest score I can 99%.

    I already have a AA in General Studies or Liberal Arts.

    I'm studying the ASVAB test and basic education concepts and physically working out to perpare for the ASVAB test and the physical test of the Coast Guard.

    Once I pass the ASVAB and the Coast Guard extrance exams, I'll love boot camp the more pain the better, because the stronger I'll become, I'll then try to get into the school for Boatswain's Mate they have told me (a Coast Guard recruiter) that there's a year minumum waiting period and that's ok for me becuase I'll be getting expierence, training, knowledge and money while working in the Coast Guard.

    I got my immediate goals for now, but I'm doing this all to work towards my dream goal. Nothing is impossible, anything is possible. If you want something to happen, make it happen.~ ^_^

    Thanks and talk to you any time in the future.
  5. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,875
    Likes: 311, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    aaah - I think I see the problem.

    If you want some free experience, visit the local yacht club and put your name down as crew on a larger boat.

    This is a great way to get started in 'on the water' activities, and you will meet lots of other enthusiasts
  6. ColorsWolf
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: CA

    ColorsWolf Junior Member

    I've been doing more research and I have discovered something: Solar Balloons!~

    I could design the entire craft to when the sun is out take out the solar balloon and let it heat up and rise, and when it it heated up enough take the craft up into the air, when the solar balloon starts to lose heat, it will be able to easily roll on land or float on water at any time because the wheels will be permenantly built into the craft and the body of the craft will have a boat base.

    I'm thinking about either having a detachable sail and mast or finding some other way of propelling the craft by wind. I actually came across a patenent where someone designed a boat that could fly like an airplane boat but be entirely wind-powered with no motor. This is achieved by entirely enclosing the boat in a capsule like an airplane cockpit and instead of a having a mast and sail verticle, it has sails horizontal like airplane wings designed to propell the boat through the water and the air.

    The way it is described to work is that the design decreases air-resistance and the wing/sails are designed along with a tail and other features to propell the boat through water much faster than a traditional sail-powered boat to the point where it achieves going past the point of take-off and takes off all by the power of the wind and you have complete control over it to.

    I'm thinking if I use this design or a variant of this design with side-sails/wings maybe even making them able to shift into verticle positions on water and maybe an enclosed boat, I could not only have greater control over the craft while in the air and water by combining it with a solar balloon, but if I do go with the enclosed design the boat could be semi-submerisible thereby greatly descreasing the chance of it sinking and maybe even being part submarine!~ ^_^

    I'm also thinking about making the wheels able to propell the boat through the water and making them reversible that is able to generate power when the wheels spin faster than the power used to propell them like generating power as the wind or water current propells the craft as the wheels move, and making the entire craft highely durable to be able to cover all terrians.

    I've attached a picture of a small wooden boat to show you the size I am thinking about making this craft.

    Credit for airplane boat powered by wind to:

    Publication number US3987982 A
    Publication type Grant
    Application number 05/652,386
    Publication date Oct 26, 1976
    Filing date Jan 26, 1976
    Priority date Dec 6, 1974

    Inventors James L. Amick
    Original Assignee Amick; James L.

    U.S. Classification 244/16
    Less «5 More »
    International Classification B64C31/00
    Less «2 More »
    Cooperative Classification B64C31/02
    European Classification B64C31/02

    References Patent Citations (12)
    Referenced by (14)

    External Links USPTO
    USPTO Assignment


    Attached Files:

  7. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,875
    Likes: 311, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

  8. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 2,414
    Likes: 111, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1222
    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    Since you will be living on this on this houseboat/airship you need to harness the powers of your poo and natural off gassing.

    Methane is lighter than air, so if you are able to capture your gas, you can put it to work as desired, be it an air-lift bag or propulsion.

    I'm pretty sure that you don't want to walk around all day and night with a tube up you arse, but maybe you can invent an non-invasive alternative.

    A heavy bean diet and you can travel the world.:D
    1 person likes this.
  9. ColorsWolf
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: CA

    ColorsWolf Junior Member

    I was also thinking of making it completely submersibile or at least partely by having the sails/wings, wheels, and solar-powered balloon comeplelty retractable thereby having a somewhat lemon-shaped craft with everything retracted inside when not in use and when being submersed only when submersed to have the wheels out shift in direction along with the tail out to power and steer the craft foward perhaps by the stored power collected from solar, wind, and kinetic energy supplemented by Human power and maybe even natural gasses harvested from natural composting. This would also make it greatly more secure.

    Many people seem to think too big and too cold and mechanical, but it is quite possible to construct such wonderous devices from cost-effective, durable, and more enviromentally friendly materials. I think small, renewable, light, and old-world yet brilliantly constructed and functioning.
  10. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 611
    Likes: 22, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 227
    Location: united states

    FMS Senior Member

    For a reality check, start by building a working RC concept model.

    Then after that, you have to engineer all the safety and reliability factors necessary for human use.

    This will take another 10 to 20 years of engineering.
  11. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,875
    Likes: 311, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    In your dreams maybe - you have been watching too much Avatar.

    As the previous post said - try it on a model, even without power.

    If you can make a model fly with lighter than air methods, then hold it a metre underwater without it crushing, you will have started on the road to your goal.
  12. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 5,373
    Likes: 254, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3380
    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Why letting the Earth be your limit? If you also make a pressurized hull and add:
    1) rocket engines for escaping Earth's gravity and
    2) solar sails for interplanetary navigation​
    you can have a small and handy all-round spacecraft, something that imo everyone should have in the garage.

    Rocket engines could be made smaller if the take-off sequence involves using a balloon to detach from the ground, then horizontal sails to get into the upper atmosphere, and only then firing the rockets.

    Think of it!

  13. Waterwitch
    Joined: Oct 2012
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 23, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 20
    Location: North East USA

    Waterwitch Senior Member

    You have a vivid imagination. Can you imagine man handling inflating and deflating a 60 foot tall 60 foot diameter balloon from the deck of that little boat? I can't. Even big people carrying solar balloons are inflated conventionally with a big electric fan to fill it with cold air before lighting off a 12 million BTU per hour burner. I happen to have a book about methane generation with manure around the farm. A person generates enough waste to make about 650 BTU's of methane per day. According to my calculations it would take you 50 and a half years of converting your waste to run a big balloon for one hour...
  14. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 5,373
    Likes: 254, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3380
    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Does your data say anything about effects of bean and sauerkraut-enriched diet on the balloon's flight capabilities?

  15. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 2,414
    Likes: 111, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1222
    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    I think there is a craft out there with large inflatable tires and a boat-like hull.

    That would take care of the amphibious portion using things other than concrete boat ramps. The wheels could be used as dinghy or life rafts when not in use, and maybe only three wheels to save a little expense.

    The wood used could be balsa wood with some super light R/C weight fiberglass and epoxy on it.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.