Floating Pump Platform Design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by SWomack, Mar 16, 2005.

  1. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Not knowing anything about this market, have you considered jack up barges? Self mobile, then you put the legs down, and it becomes a dry platform. They are used all over the gulf coast in oil exploration, and come in sizes up to a couple of hundred feet long.
     
  2. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    hey, enloe13, when you gonna fix your website?

    It would be alot easier to understand "modules" with some pics and specs. Mostly the pics.
     
  3. enloe13
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Texas

    enloe13 Junior Member

    I dug these up and have more that are of modules themselves and will attach tomorrow

    BCRUA Barge  July 14 2011.JPG

    8-3-11 superstructure.JPG

    Cedar Park Intake.JPG
     
  4. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Interesting, I see lots of small gauge truss framing and a raft of

    floats. I assume you got a way to change out the floats from the top, my removing the modular floor panels?

    The system shown in my gallery would be more:

    "....6"x12"X1/2"(wall thickness) 40' steel beams are still cheap enough to just use lots of them and not worry about fine tuning the engineering, besides we can always sell them for SOMEthing...."

    and

    "....when a hull starts going bad, we just unbolt it, ballast it down, slide it out and slide in another, and de-ballast it, because the hulls can be trucked in from any of several suppliers within a thousand miles, and the work can be done by any decent mechanic, or we could hire anyone of several contractors using this OPEN SOURCE template/spec..." Figure the platform might be 'wall to wall' hulls so if one fills it still shouldn't be a problem.
     
  5. enloe13
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Texas

    enloe13 Junior Member

    These floats never generally need changing. I personally has floats in the water that have been there for nearly 30 years. They are foam filled and do not require bilge service. You are correct about a lot of small members. Once assembled it is practically a space frame. Each 4 x 20 box truss section weight approx 720#. This must also support the modular concrete deck removable panels which are supported by a 2 x 2 ft. frame grid integrel to the frames.

    I would not agrue the point of your proposed system validity. I just have not tried it. I know what I can sell to sometimes neaderthal engineers. To make money the key thing is selling something. Nothing ever happens until someone sells something. Unless you have the stature of the architect who designed the new Hunt Bridge in Dallas, no one will listen to you. Almost all of these pump stations are considered temporary although once in they find them so economical that I do not know of any that have been taken out.

    I encourage everyone to innovate, innovate, and innovate more. Where would we be if someone hadn't. We took a basically proven technology invented in 1961 in Oklahoma and made it totally modular. The movement of the structure thru flexure causes the bolts to come loose and they must be retightened in normal barges. Ours however restricts movement and in the last ten years we are yet to get a loose bolt on a single job. This can amount to a $10k bill every year on something this size plus replacement of stainless fasteners. Not cheap.

    I would say keep hammering away at your ideas if this really means something to you. I never thought I would be having this conversation 10 years after the fact. We just did what we thought would improve the status for one barge. It happened to stick and the enginneers liked it and we could sell it. Simple as that. I am the worst in the world at believing my own BS and spending a lot of money on it. These barges just happened to find a niche will little resistance. No Genius mind at work, just practically. If I can help with your ideas or help you I am personally very glad to. It is the only thing we are put here for.

    I appreciate any and all ideas on any of our stuff and nothing would please me more than for your ideas to completey supplant the need for ours. At my age, That is what makes the world go round.

    Jonnie Enloe
     
  6. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: Springfield, Mo.

    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Didn't the OP mention "ponds" how deep is the water where it will be located?

    If the pumps normally operate from a trailer, might consider floating the trailer and if it shallow waters, use pilings with flat feet.

    If it's deeper water, I'd go with the cat barge or the modular floats, that depends too on how much set up time you'll have and charging the customer for the time involved. I doubt I'd pay a company two days build time if someone else could pull up with a barge in 2 hours.....
     
  7. enloe13
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Texas

    enloe13 Junior Member

    We only build our large barges in 30 to 250 ft. of water with 30 being a minumum. Otherwise the larger pumps pull up mud from the bottom. Again the stuff we have been fortunate enough to be involved in has been very large capacity between 25-100 million gal. per day. We have never built anything for a pond. Smallest thing was the Pair in Chesapeake, VA mention above by HDR guy above which were in some old gravel pits for reserve pumps. I was not commenting on any particular "OP" or situation. Just general comments. We do have a very extensive, long term background in floating structures of all kinds and applications. These are so specialized as to require some very special calculations in addition to structural. We developed two sets of calculations that as far as I know are unknown in civil engineering. They are derivative of Naval Architecture for large ballasted and unballasted ships and their response to large waves, extremely long fetches, and very inclimate conditions. These barges generally move around some and need to be able to handle wave conditions from any angle and any height. The pictures above are from a barge that encounters an eight mile fetch from the southwest and a 11 mile fetch from the West-Northwest. We have considered bilge systems before but the time taken to pump the bilge in extremely heavy weather conditions and equipment required to do it are so expensive that we ran into brick wall. Any type flotation system that can take on water is almost impractical. Any vessel that would necessarilyneed to be turned into the wind, so to speak or was better suited to encountering waves from one direction as opposed to ninety degrees removed, might have problems as these are unmanned and practically unapproachable during storms due to hight voltage and lightning. I suppose that I would have to hold to the opinion that anything that does not have enclosed sealed flotation and is negatively bouyant by gross weight is not suitable. You will only get one chance. Once it is on the bottom, your out of business. Consequently, the barges we design are positively bouyant by weight and cannot go under. Then the challenge becomes keeping it righted by virtue of balance and resistance to overturn from wind and wave action. Now that I think about it I recall how reluctant I was on the first one and the guarantees we had to make. It is not easy to swallow even now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
  8. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    check my gallery and note the comments about

    "could also have floation modules" in the hull so even if the hull is holed it still floats.

    My recent gallery addition was mostly in response to Eric Sponberg's presentation of "Modular Houseboats" and use of "biggest easily truck-able" pontoons, which can be found in the "Who is going to IBEX" thread.

    I thought my tinker-toy system would be good for "land lubber" building/trailer, but I was mostly thinking about temp construction trailers, or dock side ins. sales offices, or temp event trailers.

    I didn't know about the market demand linked to the movie "Sleepless in Seattle".
     
  9. enloe13
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Texas

    enloe13 Junior Member

    We have actually built large houses on our barges but have not marketed the concept.
    The largest was a three story on Lake Travis, Texas with a 20 ft. diameter turret and roof top sun deck.

    I would reall like to talk to someone interested in the housing aspect of the business. We have done considerable research and design in this area and it is viable from all standpoints, except permitting. I don't know of a single place that allows single family on public waterways. Of course I'm not in touch with many places like that either.
     

  10. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    enloe13, you should send Sponberg an email, he will be presenting

    his modular houseboat to IBEX on Tuesday and said he wants to hear from any interested parties.

    I think there are plenty of charactors able to draw a house on a flat barge, and even frame one up, but input from someone like you with real floating platform engineering exp would be more than welcome, I'm sure.

    Not that some pretty amateur efforts wouldn't be able to make something float tied to a dock in a small lake, but a certain class of customer(like ones with money)......
     
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