flat bottomed skiff vs punt

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by thedutchtouch, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. thedutchtouch
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 91
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 39
    Location: baltimore. MD

    thedutchtouch Junior Member

    "which is better?"

    is there any clear way to answer this question? if comparing boats of similar size/weight, where do the pro's/cons break down? it seems the skiff would be more maneuverable and have better secondary stability, while a similarly sized punt would have more initial stability and surface area to fish from?

    and just so there's no confusion, what i'm referring to as a skiff: (picture shows 12' skiff)
    [​IMG]

    and punt: (15'6" punt)
    [​IMG]

    both pictures taken from the website where i'm deciding between plans from (they're all free) Hannu's Boatyard
     
  2. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,405
    Likes: 33, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 404
    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    well your skiff looks like is on a british canal ... you are not going to get much chop so a flat bottomed boat is not a problem ...personally I think the skiff design woud give you more respect than the punt ....Kits..?? why not do your own design with software called Carene at www.epoxy-resins.co.uk In my opinion if you use two planks for the sides you can despense with the frames as the curve gives it stiffness...you only need epoxy resin on hardwood faced ply .if its softwood then ployester resin is fine IMHO
     
  3. thedutchtouch
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 91
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 39
    Location: baltimore. MD

    thedutchtouch Junior Member

    thanks for the reply, i won't be building from a kit, just found that site to have free online plans which i can modify to design my boat, i'm really deciding between skiff and punt and wondering if it's a form over function choice or if one of them really does have features that make it a "better" boat. so far the pros and cons seem to even out
     
  4. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 3,039
    Likes: 228, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1279
    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Be careful with your asesments of stability. With respect to the pix, the punt almost surely has more stability than the skiff. 15 -6 loa as opposed to 12-0 loa for starters. The longer boat will have somewhat more stability than the shorter one. But initial stability is largely a function of chine width. So if it is initial stability that you want then choose a design with fairly wide chine beam, forty five inches or more. Reserve stability is closely associated with sheer height. Do not be beguiled with the thought that a lot of flare makes a lot of reserve stability. All that is well and good, but you must exchange one attribute for some disadvantage or other. No free lunch with boats. If you have high sides you will not only increase weight but also face a windage problem. If you have a wide chine beam you will need proportionately more reinforcement for the bottom and the boat will not go as easily under oar or paddle. It will plane easier if that is one of the things that you want.

    I am a skiff afficianado and that is my choice of boat for my particular purpose. If my primary use for the boat was fishing, I'd go for the punt. The difference in stability for equal length boats would not amount to much if the dimensions are similar. The punt will probably pound more than the skiff, but the skiff can also hammer you pretty good too. Bottom line is to choose the one you like best and get on with the build.
     
  5. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,405
    Likes: 33, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 404
    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    on the www.epoxy-resins.co.uk look at the design called "Morgan" too narrow aft for me but the doulbe chine removes the bracing ....click on the image to see it being made ..note how the guy did not remove the cable ties/use enough filler and the taping inside is a bit messy. I have done my own 16 ft version of this boat at a bottom width of 74 inches using the Carene programme in flat and 5deg deadrise versions.
     
  6. thedutchtouch
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 91
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 39
    Location: baltimore. MD

    thedutchtouch Junior Member

    your link redirects to carbonology.com and i can't find this "morgan" there.
     
  7. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,405
    Likes: 33, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 404
    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    sorry it was resins not resin....www.epoxy-resins.co.uk make sure you go to the stuff with the old guy with a cap building it about 15 progress photos
     
  8. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 360
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    hello

    may i ask, what do you want to do with your boat and where.

    If going through chop, the finer bow of the skiff may be of assistance. The punt looks a nice boat too. What do you want to do, row sail or motor. Do you wish to cartop or trailer, or put in on a trolley and push? How many people do you wish to carry? Are you going on the sea, or in lakes or on rivers.

    I built Hannus dory. Nice boat but windage is high, more a 2 to 3 person boat than a 1 person boat. Is tender which keeps me alive when out in the bay in 3ft waves coming from abeam (tender boat goes with the waves, thus giving more final stability at expense of initial stability). But my boat does not inspire confidence in those less agile, thus they are less likely to use it.

    So you really need more info on what you want to do. If the ideal boat needs plans at $100 then spend the money, work out what you want, do not save money on plans for something that probably does not suit.
     
  9. Morro
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 21
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Norway

    Morro Junior Member

    The two boats fom Hannu are not of similar size or weight, the punt is about one third larger in all dimensions, so about 2x the capacity. 2 Sheets of 6mm plywood vs 4 sheets of 9mm.


    Other than size the two boats are similar.
     
  10. kmorin
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 185
    Likes: 18, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 231
    Location: Alaska

    kmorin Senior Member

    skiff vs punt

    thedutchtouch,
    I'd say they're [nearly] identical boats- one is a multiple of the other and that bow is gone forward the #1 station- essentially.

    Take both plan view images and superimpose them, it appears from the photos the skiff would fit in the punt with almost exact lines match except for scale; so the offsets look to be a mere multiple of the smaller skiff.

    As to the punt bow? just looks lopped off, so the resulting hull will be more displ for its final length overall?

    Wider beam will be more stable in all usable angles of heal of the same forms, so the punt will always be more roll stable and haul more in less depth but will have a little more impact in a choppy sea due to the flat bow.

    Being nearly plumb sided both shapes will be wet without the slightest hope of shedding spray so while the punt will be more impact in any chop, at speed; they'll both soak the occupants in any sea with a head wind. The punt seems to have more flam in the forward topsides so that looks to be the 'drier' of the two shapes?

    As mentioned by everyone here, it seems the most logical to define the use and handling in order to determine the boat most suited to your use.

    Another shape related item is the outboard engine- that implies the punt shape's bottom after butt lines don't rise toward the waterline as would be the case with the rowing skiff- shown w/o outboard. The difference means the skiff would row but not plane but the punt would plane and be more effort to row, not just because of the increased displ to pull.

    Better is "more suited" to your use. If you're sawing sheet ply material then a guided panel saw is 'better' than a small Japanese hand saw. If, on the other hand, you're sawing off the tops of plugged screw holes the Japanese pull saw is 'better' than an AC/mains powered electric saw. Better is a relative term, both boats have their place and each is 'better', in that place, than the other.

    just my two cents,

    Cheers,
    Kevin Morin
     
  11. thedutchtouch
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 91
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 39
    Location: baltimore. MD

    thedutchtouch Junior Member

    thanks all, i'm going to build the skiff. convinced my wife it was a good idea because there's the possibility to retrofit a small sail. I plan on using it with a small motor (probably trolling motor), and after comparing the two I'm going to be making a skiff. the next thread i start will be my build thread.
     
  12. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 360
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    the skiff looks a quite nice boat for motoring with a small motor or also for sailing

    If you are going sailing, it is probably easier to attach your dagger-board case and any additional framing required in first place, as opposed to adding these items after the boat is built (said by someone who did the opposite)

    If it is for sailing and motoring, then having a bit more beam compared to a rowing boat makes sense. Have not looked, but if it has a beam of about 4ft-3" it should go well. Flare angle is a little small, but such is life.

    An electric trolling motor may have limited endurance. I use a 3hp on my boat. A 2hp would be fine too. If you can find a second hand 2hp outboard motor on eBay (say 12 months to 24 months old) from a major brand (my yamaha has been good) it might be more cost effective than an electric. The downside of a 2 stroke is that they are noisy.

    So you are after a skiff about 12ft for sailing and motoring, sounds fine.

    It looks like a reasonably nice craft.
     
  13. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 360
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    I just looked at the beam, it is 3ft 9"

    Build the boat if you want, it is just that it looks more optimised for rowing with a narrower beam than you would expect from a sailing boat.Maybe ask someone elses opinion, not just mine.

    My 2 cents is that something a few inches wider would be better.
     
  14. thedutchtouch
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 91
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 39
    Location: baltimore. MD

    thedutchtouch Junior Member

    thanks, i'm thinking of building the skiff a bit larger- about 13 feet LOA, and beam roughly 50-52 inches.
     

  15. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 920
    Likes: 46, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 732
    Location: NW Washington State USA

    Easy Rider Senior Member

    The punt could be easier to drive as the sides won't be plowing so much but there may be more wetted surface. Also the punt could be narrower and carry more load. Atkin designed some very nice punts. atkinboatplans.com

    Easy Rider
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.